Inkipedia:Ink Pump/Archives/2023-12-04

We need to discuss audio use on Inkipedia
Hey gang. It's time for the discussion nobody wants to really have: Our current audio use is blatantly unacceptable for copyright. More specifically, I am concerned about the presentation of the Music page and Inkipedia's providing of entire game soundtracks for viewing and download. I do not believe this can be claimed as fair use copyright, and would like to introduce stricter policy in order to prevent any possible issues that could arise. My rough guide can be found on this draft page. The general summary of changes is the following: It's not something I think a lot of people are necessarily are going to enjoy as an outcome, but it is something that I do believe to be legally necessary. I am requesting feedback on the policy itself, as well as logistics on implementation and questions anyone may have. Trig - 02:45, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
 * First and most importantly, Inkipedia will no longer host full songs on the platform. All audio files will be cropped to a maximum of 30 seconds in observance of several other similar policies as to not serve as a substitution for commercial products like Splatune or content exclusive to buying the game (music not released outside the game in official means).
 * Audio files will be recaptured and standardized in quality. The attempt is to move to using MP3 formatting with a standard quality threshold and loudness. Any files played on Inkipedia should A) be able to be heard on most to all common browsers, B) be of a consistent quality, and C) a consistent volume so users do not need to constantly adjust for playback.
 * The music page will be rewritten more to discuss broad styles of music and the artists that make them, relative themes, and be more text-focused.


 * I think this is entirely fair. I would like to mention that from what I've heard (I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice), "fair use" is a lot more limited than people tend to say it is, but with how Nintendo has historically acted towards uploads of their soundtracks, it's good to be as safe as possible while maintaining the purpose of the wiki. I do think that the policy could be more strict than 30 seconds, as some songs can be quite short to the point where 30 seconds can really be pushing the boundaries. XarrotD (talk) 03:38, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
 * 30 second samples are pretty common on music stores. Wikipedia recommends shorter samples for shorter music, but I think that's too complicated for our needs. I suppose it might be reasonable to use a shorter duration if the song is really short, so long as the sample is long enough to "illustrate the particular instruments or musical elements in a song in a way that a text description cannot" (Wikipedia quote). Heddy (talk) 05:07, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
 * English Wikipedia's adherence to "Fair Use" policies is way stricter than is necessary, either theoretically or in practice, and should not be the model/guide we follow here. –Eli (talk) 13:58, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Information on deletion of excessive-length audio should probably be added. Like, do we keep audio until a suitable replacement has been uploaded? Or do we delete all music files immediately? I lean towards the latter.
 * Exceptions should probably be made for audio that is not music. Like, the audio files that have every Inkling/Octoling sound effect. Heddy (talk) 05:07, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I think the policy is good. I think the rewritten music page will be much better than the current one.
 * What section of the songs would we use for the 30 second versions? Would it be the first 30 seconds?  05:55, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I also completely agree with this idea, for obvious copyright reasons, and I think we should try to implement it sooner rather than later. I'd argue that the first 30 seconds would be best no matter what, similar to the S3 jukebox, but I'd go one step further and reduce the length for shorter songs so we aren't hosting the full track - personally, I think the extra faff in editing those would be worth it for the payoff. GloverMist (talk) 10:22, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I'll actually push back on that. Shorter songs are shorter songs, if they're met in 30 seconds then they are met in 30 seconds. Previewing features on sites don't change for short tracks. I would personally suggest flagging all files with a template indicating a change is made and having a team of people work through them. All would need to be new uploads so old revisions are not found. I am also willing to give a small audacity guide to help users properly edit the clips. I do not think there is an overwhelmingly present need to delete everything outright, but if that's what other users feel is smoothest to do, then it is what should be done. WiKirby, for example, when doing theirs, did not delete everything but rather went one game at a time. Trig - 13:59, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I've shared thoughts on this before but I honestly don't think this is necessary or worth it. It is up to copyright holders to enforce what they may argue as not being Fair Use – which has a wide range of interpretations in the first place. This wiki is strictly for educational purposes, is making no profit and is not charging anyone, and cannot ever be reasonably claimed to be targeting Nintendo's revenue stream or stealing customers from them (this is a website, Splatoon is a game, different mediums and even userbases, yadda yadda). We don't need to bend over backwards to imagine what Nintendo theoretically could care about (but doesn't, and hasn't for almost a decade now) or walk on eggshells and self-police based on some unfounded, and in practice unrealistic, fear. –Eli (talk) 14:04, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I disagree with the notion of "cannot ever be reasonably claimed to be targeting Nintendo's revenue stream or stealing customers from them". Nintendo reasonably expects members to purchase the soundtrack legally through Splatune or through the purchase of the game itself, and the hosting of said soundtracks are a free alternative to this purchase. Regardless, just because Nintendo has not specifically gone after any particular wikis as of yet does not mean we are not still participating in copyright violations. It is the drastically safer option and morally correct option to make these changes. I would also be dubious of referring to our content as "educational". If this were the case, larger sites like Wikipedia would also be hosting full songs and they also would qualify as "educational". Trig Jegman - 14:38, 30 August 2023 (UTC)


 * I'll preface this by saying these are my views and I am not speaking for the wiki as a whole nor ending the discussion here.
 * I agree with Eli: this is a massive undertaking which would involve editing copyrighted material to downsample and trim it, which in itself is a copyright violation. The stance of "short music clips are fine" is a weird line to draw, if we are to follow copyright law. Wikipedia's style guide says "samples should not exceed 30 seconds or 10% of the length of the original song, whichever is shorter" (emphasis mine). Furthermore, this actively harms Inkipedia, as you will be destroying previous well-established content that has not been a problem. If not Inkipedia, users will go to other sites to download the songs if they want to do that, and I'd rather they stay here and not download malware from dubious sites.
 * On the Nintendo front, this wiki exists and continues to, by Nintendo's good graces. I would be shocked if they do not know about this site. As mentioned, Fair Use is a flimsy argument and if they wanted to, Inkipedia could be shut down overnight, music or not, because the wiki covers copyrighted content (that is, the Splatoon series). I don't think we should pretend to be lawyers. If Nintendo sends us a message, we will follow it.
 * Inkipedia also covers music and audio that is not in Splatune. What about when no better alternatives exist?
 * As for something a bit more palatable, we could link to Splatune on the music page and file pages. We should be for the original sourcing anyway.
 * 13:45, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Well-said – I agree with everything stated above. "I don't think we should pretend to be lawyers" is the crux of my argument, and the framing of this proposed action as "destroying previous well-established content that has not been a problem" is entirely correct. It would be a huge blow to the wiki, is hugely overreaching and a far from naturally or mutually agreed upon interpretation, and would greatly decrease the site's usefulness. Every song is also available on YouTube in full, uploads which are allowed to exist by Nintendo (as they would be removed, selectively blocked, or monetized by the Content ID system if not, which Nintendo is known to use).
 * Being able to listen to songs online is not going to stop anyone from buying the game – this is a claim that is unjustifiable, and no existing research proves or even suggests this. This claim is what would need to be legally proven in order to say that this is actually violating a Fair Use doctrine, but everything here is simply your personal opinion and interpretation, @Trig Jegman, from what I'm understanding. But do you have any sources which specifically back this up, that being able to listen to music from a videogame decreases sales of that videogame? In fact, we can't even prove that full-blown piracy hurts videogame sales – there's no link that's been shown.
 * A few more points: The songs are not on any official streaming site, and the physical soundtracks are not even officially licensed or sold in the US or any other English-speaking market anyway, only as an import from Japan. Moreover, we are not featuring any music in a manner or purpose of being a file hosting site (it is an encyclopedia); critically, articles here provide commentary on the original works, further justifying this use. Everything here points to our use of music not being a violation of Fair Use claims… and it's not up to us to self-destruct and somehow disprove this ourselves at a sudden, random point after nearly a decade with no underlying motivation or reason. –Eli (talk) 06:18, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Nintendo has been known to issue takedowns of their music, and they will use it for existing uploads of the Splatoon soundtracks if they catch wind of them. Just because they haven't taken down various uploads on Youtube yet does not mean that they will not in the future. And while our usage of the tracks likely does not cause a significant impact on Nintendo's sales, this does not matter in the end, as Nintendo could issue takedowns as they please.
 * I also simply don't see the value in hosting entire tracks as-is. Does it benefit the wiki to host entire songs like this? As the music article currently stands, there is no commentary being added to the music, just the music itself, and providing the entire track is not necessary to provide commentary on it. I personally think that most people would look to uploads of the soundtrack on Youtube instead of the wiki. While we could simply comply with a takedown when they issue one, I think that it's more trouble than it is worth. XarrotD (talk) 17:01, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
 * My point is they don't need to issue takedowns – at this point, for any audio portion of any video on YouTube, it's not typically a manual process that has to go through Nintendo, then KADOKAWA, then Google, etc… it gets automatically flagged by the Content ID digital fingerprinting system which detects unauthorized use before videos even go live, and even for private or unlisted videos. Nintendo does this for some music, but it seems like they've explicitly chosen not to do it with any Splatoon songs, considering there are videos with tens of millions of views that have been live for years. Nintendo even uploads full tracks with music videos themselves, sometimes! There is nothing to either point to the fact that Nintendo wants to restrict this content, or (as stated above) that the availability of music on the internet would impact sales of the entire videogame (a different medium) in any way.
 * Yes, it does benefit the wiki. I'm not only talking about the "Music" article. Check out articles like Calamari Inkantation or Splattack! with thousands of words talking about the music structure, leitmotifs, cultural references, game usage, variations, and so on. Certain in-game and promotional images even show official music notes on a staff, official dance moves, and so on, and the wiki highlights at what point in songs these pieces relate. That is a critical benefit provided by articles on the wiki as they exist today. People are also free to look up things of their own volition on YouTube or other platforms.
 * You're phrasing things like "when they issue one" as if this is for some reason inevitable, but have absolutely zero evidence behind why you think this will happen, as opposed to if it will ever happen, which it hasn't for almost a decade. Nothing suggests this will happen. The only thing that is "more trouble than it is worth" is revising every music file on the entire wiki now, for no reason, rather than continuing to be prudent, reactive, and operating in good faith. Complying with DMCA takedown requests if third-parties issue them is how websites (and ISPs and hosting providers) operate and we have no justification or reason to act in a starkly different manner to essentially every other website out there. (Heddy also mentioned more about this in their now-removed comment – but I'm linking it here because it speaks to this point as well.) –Eli (talk) 11:25, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I still don't think we need to host entire tracks, although the usage of a full song if analysis is provided is a decent use. I will also mention that content ID cannot differentiate between gameplay videos and uploads of soundtracks, and Nintendo is supportive of gameplay content. Because of this, they cannot issue automatic takedowns as it would risk getting gameplay videos taken down. With how Nintendo acts when it comes to content on Youtube (yes, they have issued major takedowns, albeit on a rather irregular basis), I see no reason why they would not act similarly to the full soundtracks being made available on a wiki site. I think it's okay if we simply comply with takedowns as they are issued, and I think there is a high chance of it happening. XarrotD (talk) 17:59, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Re: "I see no reason why they would not act similarly to the full soundtracks being made available on a wiki site [...] I think there is a high chance of it happening." – any ideas as to why it hasn't happened for over 8 years, then? Serious question. What makes you think there's a high chance? Nothing points to this being likely.
 * Re: "I think it's okay if we simply comply with takedowns as they are issued" – agreed. –Eli (talk) 19:37, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
 * As somebody who has made the entire OST (of all three games) into a playlist on YT without uploading a single new video, I can testify that there is all of the material that we have simply available on YouTube. It's a platform that Nintendo uses, and they haven't issued takedowns for almost any of the material there.
 * We can leave the audio files the way they are on the Music page, and comply with any takedowns that Nintendo issues.
 * We cut all of our audio files down to 30 seconds or however long we decide for each one, but we add links to the songs on YouTube, maybe on an official soundtrack like VGM Haven for the first 2 games and the Nintendo Music Channel for the 3rd.
 * We cut all of our audio files down to 30 seconds and deal with potential backlash for it.
 * I still think that 1 is the best option, because Nintendo hasn't issued anything yet on the full soundtracks on YouTube that have millions of views, so they wouldn't gun for us first. *shrug* Wave (talk) 19:00, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Umm...
 * You posted this like it was just something that was happening. I think that's a problem. It should be a proposal. Wave (talk) 19:09, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Not ignoring this, just haven't had time to respond succinctly. I like the second option of having domestic trimmed tracks and embedding or linking to YouTube for the soundtracks as an option. I didn't want to launch this straight into a proposal because I wanted to feel the waters around first. Trig - 21:32, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Relying on centralized, third-party (and low quality) sites like YouTube might be the second-best option for user experience, but isn't a good practice for archival/documentation purposes. (Hell, the Internet Archive actually has the full soundtrack(s) too…) But there is, frankly, nothing to support the suggestion that we should proactively spend a lot of time trimming tracks (especially considering nothing points to any potential violation of Fair Use in the first place, so this is totally unnecessary, if we're assuming good faith here) instead of bettering the wiki in other ways. –Eli (talk) 04:45, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I can link to my playlist to give us a base selection of songs to link to, so lmk if we end up doing that. Wave (talk) 13:30, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
 * No matter what happens, I really support making the music page more text-focused. Arceusgjengen (talk) 10:37, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Hey Trig -
 * Just giving more info. About half of the songs on my playlist have disappeared because they are no longer available on the page of the person who uploaded them (The Nintendo Music Channel). I would guess that this is a copyright takedown from Nintendo or something, so...
 * I think that it also removed some of their other content, such as Smash Bros. songs. Could this mean something? I have a more genuine fear of Nintendo doing a takedown of their material. Wave (talk) 16:23, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
 * If you go to the video link it shows you the reason for the video not being playable. The account owner may have shut down the account or set the videos to private, the entire account may have been shut down for different copyright-related reasons, the specific videos may have been changed so they are only not playable in your geographical region, etc. You shouldn't wildly guess here; you should simply go to the relevant URL to see the actual reason. Smash Bros is developed by a different company and follows different licensing than Splatoon (SmaBro's music is licensed by a mix of club.nintendo, Bandai Namco, TEICHIKU RECORDS, etc. and Splatoon is KADOKAWA/Enterbrain) – this isn't indicative of anything and the activities of one random YouTube channel should not make you "fear" more here. –Eli (talk) 19:06, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Okay, it just startled me when half my playlist too. Also, VGM Haven is starting to lose songs too, so there might be a trend. I still couldn't find why it was taken down. Wave (talk) 15:40, 13 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Update on this situation: Nintendo has posted some updated guidelines for using materials, which does imply they may be putting a closer eye on the use of these materials: Nintendo JP. While the focus has primarily been listed to be social media (YouTube and Twitch listed primarily), they also specified that any platform is on the table. Just something to keep in mind. Trig - 17:32, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Automated translations
We've talked about translating material a few times and the primary gripe is editors using Google translate, which is notorious for being inaccurate. I propose a few solutions:


 * 1) We write a formal policy that bans machine translations.
 * 2) We allow the machine translations, but editors must also use a note/template that says this is machine-translated / needs verifying.
 * 3) We have a bot that adds machine translations using Deepl, for editors to verify after the fact. The translations could be tagged as bot translations.

In any case, I could make a check for machine translations. 13:54, 31 August 2023 (UTC)


 * My ideal solution would be to allow the use of DeepL, provided that the translations are clearly marked as such in the article. I'd have a category created for these articles, so that they can be reviewed by fluent speakers of the languages. I think that a formal policy about this would be necessary, so that users who use other, less reliable, bot translators, or do not mark bot translations properly, can be punished. Even if we ban all machine translations, a formal policy regarding translations is long overdue, which has resulted in a large amount of machine translations being added to the wiki by unknowing users. 14:59, 31 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Given Inkipedia's wide language base, I support option 1 with not permitting any machine translations period end of sentence. Trig - 15:44, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree, even with a notice it's better to avoid making errors and spreading possible misinfo. 15:49, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I think that it would be good to check for machine translations, maybe adding it as a project as well. I don't think that it would be a good idea to outright ban machine translations, because they would have their merits for early translations of new material. We should DEFINITELY add a tag for them, though. Wave (talk) 17:53, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I vote for #1 – any other method is irresponsible and leads to more misinformation being circulated. Notes about MTL are not good enough for people (especially fans of this game, historically) to not take these translations at face value, and only results in more bad translations circulating. An especially relevant case of this was regarding one of the new tweets from a few days ago about some new music track, which had a phrase that both Google Translate and DeepL translated as "skanky" instead of "ska". Re: proposal #3, there is no way to reliably detect text as being machine translated or not – while telltale signs do exist, this is an open, unsolved problem and we don't need actually-translated-by-a-human-who-knows-what-they're-doing text getting incorrectly flagged.
 * We have multiple people doing proper translation work for this series (as Trig also mentioned above) and don't need to devalue their work by littering MTL all over the place or bringing down the high-quality and accuracy that this wiki prides itself on. –Eli (talk) Eli (talk) 11:39, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Agree with Trig and Eli on #1. Additionally, seeing as some users have already disregarded (or haven't noticed?) the policy surrounding leaks, it's likely that many machine translations won't be tagged properly. 11:52, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Do we have enough active translators to reliably translate all of the material? Wave (talk) 18:42, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
 * It depends on what you mean by "all the material" (is that even possible?) but the major/important stuff gets translated, yes. I often get pinged on Discord by @Perfectionist when material they're looking at (which is pretty comprehensive, in my experience) needs some clarification. :P –Eli (talk) 04:38, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I would prefer banning machine translations, since they often have errors. I don't think it is necessary to have them on Inkipedia, since people can use things like Google Translate or DeepL themselves if they would like to read a machine translation.  04:36, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree – people should feel free to use these tools themselves (as we always provide a reference/link to the original Japanese, if not mirroring the text as well) but output from them at one point in time doesn't need to be baked into articles on the wiki. –Eli (talk) 04:40, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I am for option 1, as I can't consider the other two options options. Every edit on Inkipedia is appreciated, as it reflects time and work invested to improve a page. Translating dialogues asks for knowledge on almost fluent level, as the conversations held build up on each other and sometimes require understanding of idioms and puns as well as language specific rules for grammar you won't always get from using a translation software. While the thought of adding to a page is appreciated the approach of copy-pasting sentences from translation software to wiki is not work, but work for those who have to clean up afterwards. A translation software can be used the way it is supposed to be, namely helping with vocabulary or deep thought requiring sentences, but I am assuming that the editor is second guessing and overviewing before finishing an edit. Editors without knowledge of the language can't do that however, which is why I can't support any form of machine based translation.  10:13, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Wave (talk) 13:32, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I have a question, is it considered machine translations to look up certain words using AI because I'm still learning? If so, i'll stop doing that. 15:25, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't that be looking up a word in the dictionary, rather? 15:31, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
 * If you need to look up word translations frequently, you don't have enough fluency to make translations on the wiki. 15:34, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
 * It's not frequent, there's just random times where there's sayings and idioms that I don't understand so I look them up. 15:46, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Hmm... harsh much?
 * ...sorry. Wave (talk) 16:06, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh yeah, it can be difficult to discern the proper translation for idioms, especially if the language isn't your native language. 16:20, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
 * ^-^ Wave (talk) 19:42, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
 * While I prefer option 2, it looks like most people prefer option 1.
 * We need a policy proposal to put this topic to rest. Does anyone want to submit a policy proposal based on option 1? Heddy (talk) 14:58, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I feel like the policy should be #1, but only ban outright translation of entire texts or dialogues, and not any usage of machine translation at all. Alternatively, I would phrase it as a ban on unedited machine-translated text.
 * In my opinion the test of "should this be on the wiki" needs to be "are you confident in the accuracy of the translation" and not "which tools have you used to make it".
 * 16:05, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Point taken. I can still continue to see the benefits of machine translations when working with translations and projects. However, I don't think that many of the editors that would use machine translators to help aid in translations would have the same level of control, expertise, and dedication to accuracy that a human translator, perhaps with help from a machine translator, would use.
 * One example of positive machine translation that I would cite would be rassicas, who has used DeepL in the past. However, they have always edited the translation by hand to ensure quality and accuracy. In general, the level of accuracy from machine translations will deteriorate unless the user is able to edit the raw translation. Regrettably, I think that this is unavoidable for the bulk of users.
 * Perhaps we could add a group of editors that are "licensed translators" and may use machine translators to aid in their workload. In general, it has been stated in this forum that we, in fact, do have enough translators that are able to meet the needs of the community without machine translations. I will admit that I have not seen this in action, but I don't have a reason to doubt. As far as I can tell, we have sufficient experience, and the problems usually stem from new users translating.
 * And hey, licensing translators through some form of experience check could mean new Barnsquids for their experience! I think that the translators need more recognition. Wave (talk) 15:49, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I prefer option 2 as I use machine translation on a day by day basis. I prefer to have translation than nothing at all or to expect our readers to translate on their own. I also think we don't have the editors in high level language who are willingly to translate everything we cover. (See Splatoon Turf Quiz for example) Shahar (talk) 16:25, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
 * While I originally thought the same thing, we do have enough high-level translators (myself not included). You're always welcome to use machine translation on your own, but for the wiki as a whole it's always a situation of providing the community with accurate lore and data, which we are known for. By using machine translations, we are liable to make mistakes, which can be avoided by our translators. In any case, Nintendo is starting to translate their own developer interviews (i.e. Ask the Developer - Splatoon 3 News), which could be promising for more accurate translations by Nintendo themselves, and hopefully more careful localization in the future. Now that Splatoon 3 is out, the series seems to be moving in a more commercial direction, which may call for less new translations needed. Wave (talk) 13:39, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

H2whoa Band Members name?
Is there any way that we could find band member names based on OKUTOPASUTAKO and NAGAREHANASANGO? It seems like they're both long enough to be a first name and a last name, but we don't have any more evidence (I think). Wave (talk) 17:48, 1 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Those are definitely just their species. OKUTOPASUTAKO is a combination of "OKUTOPASU" (a transliteration of "Octopus") and "TAKO" ("Octopus" in Japanese), confirming the left band member is an octoling."NAGAREHANA SANGO" is the Japanese name of anchor coral, which the right band member seems to be based off of. 18:00, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I hope that we get the band members names soon, though, because I really need lore for them now.
 * aggressive introverting* Wave (talk) 18:22, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
 * We'll probably get the names of the members through Splatoon Base when it next updates, so keep a look out for that! You'll probably gonna be waiting a while, though, because we still don't have the names of the Damp Socks members haha. Hopefully it'll update when Side Order comes out. 18:29, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Side Order - Maybe trailer at Nintendo Live? Frankly, I've just given up at this point. :( Wave (talk) 18:34, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
 * ))))))) Wave (talk) 03:54, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

Daybreaker Anthem?
If I remember correctly, the song listed above was found in the files of the Version 5.0.0 update for Splatoon 3. This song seems to be made by deep cut & is 5 minutes in length. I cannot find an exact source stating the credibility of this but I do know that the song has been uploaded on external sites quite a bit.

I was wondering if this should be added or not yet, and if we did, would { {Leak}} or { {Future}} be used?VibeCat (talk) 21:13, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
 * It was requested for deletion per the leaks policy. Once it actually releases, we will add it back to the site. Trig Jegman - 21:32, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Alright, thanks for the clarification. The last thing I'd want to do is make a page that is against the policy! VibeCat (talk) 21:35, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

Are the back covers for the manga not uploaded?
I was going to organize some character galleries when I saw almost none of the back covers weren't uploaded. are they on the site and I can't find them, or is this really a mistake? Octoru (talk) 19:10, 5 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Nobody has ever seen a reason to upload the back covers of manga. If you have a good reason why they should be uploaded, feel free to bring it up here. If you'd like to upload them yourself, images of the back cover are generally found on online retail sites. 20:53, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Alright, I'll upload them then. Thanks. Octoru (talk) 16:08, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

Something wrong with the templates on the Season pages
For Drizzle Season 2022, Chill Season 2022, Fresh Season 2023, and Sizzle Season 2023 the template used in the Locker Customizations section does not work. What the issue is, is a mystery to me. I also tried it on a different device to no avail. 01:15, 6 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Fixed. There were some apostrophes missing on the original lists, which prevented them from being called correctly. 18:21, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
 * There's still an issue with the Tableturf Battle section. 18:44, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

No Competitive:Splatana Wiper Deco?
Was on the wiki earlier and noticed a lack of a competitive page for Splatana Wiper Deco. I'm not necesarily a competitive player so I couldn't really contribute much to the making of this, but I was curious if there is a reason this page doesn't exist? 20:01, 7 September 2023 (UTC)


 * The weapon strategy pages are an ongoing project on the wiki and many weapons do not have pages yet. It will get added eventually when someone has the time and knowledge. Additionally, the Splatana Wiper Deco is a relatively new weapon, meaning there isn't a lot of competitive knowledge about it yet. 21:55, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I just want the Inkbrush page updated... I could use some help with my skill level there. Wave (talk) 15:48, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Understandable. Maybe I'm a bit biased because I've always used the wiki for building gear but, eh, it's less of a complaint and moreso just kind of something I noticed since I'm not going to be able to contribute. 21:58, 8 September 2023 (UTC)


 * You can always use sendou.ink for building gear if the wiki doesn't have a page for that weapon. 02:13, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
 * It's not the gear... it's how to play it. Wave (talk) 16:17, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
 * As Eminence said, many weapons do not have pages yet, so that's why I'm working on them! If you don't see a competitive page for a weapon, you can make it yourself, or ask me! And by the way, you don't need to be a competitive player! You can watch and observe players using the weapon, or use it yourself, and explain the playstyle you think works best with the weapon. 02:55, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

Popular Competitive Players
I think there should be a list of popular competitive players for the competitive pages to source. Not full pages, since they would all be stubs, but maybe a list like the List of guitarists for the Splatoon series list. I first saw a discussion talking about this, here, and I shared my opinion... but since the conversation is old, I don't think it'll be noticed, so i'm bringing it up here. There should be a list for popular competitive players, who are useful enough to be sourced by competitive pages for references. 03:53, 8 September 2023 (UTC)


 * I'm fine with the idea in general but how many popular competitive players aren't notable enough to hav their own page, how would it be decided as to who belongs on the list/the criteria for being on it, while maintaining neutrality and our appearance as a wiki. Also what information would be on the page about these competitive players? Freddie (talk) 07:05, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I feel as if listing these competitive players would be too much for the wiki at the moment, because we would have to maintain said list, and update it consistently. What if one of the players is accused of a heinous crime, would they still be "popular" enough for the page? Instead, I recommend we list the teams, with player names, who have played in competitive. Of course, we'd have to specify what "competitive splatoon" means is (is it Div 3 LUTI players and up, or Div 1?) but that would have to wait until we come to a decision on whether or not to have a player list. Thanks, Xando, talk 12:22, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
 * @Freddie, I was thinking about the 'how does it count to be popular' and I was thinking, maybe a specific ruleset that these players have to meet, like at least 5000 followers or is a credited source for a lot of Competitive pages, and the content they make is actually useful.
 * @Xando, I don't think maintainability is that serious, I think the Inkipedia is capable. And when I talk about Competitive Splatoon players, I don't mean players who're in competitive teams, I mean players who make content about Competitive Splatoon... like ProChara; which is referenced in a lot of Competitive weapon pages. 14:19, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure, Inkipedia doesn't seem too capable of working on some of our own pages in the competitive namespace already, I see little to no reason to work on yet another project over there that we might not finish for awhile. Also, please specify whether the pages would be talking about competitive players or splatoon content creators, because you mention both. Lastly, if it is about content creators, then Inkipedia is not the space for it. There have already been questions on content creator pages, and the answer was no, because Inkipedia is a space about the Splatoon games, not the creators who play it.
 * Regards, Xando, talk 14:36, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
 * @Xando, I'm talking about Splatoon Competitive Content Creators who are referenced on several of these Competitive weapon pages and are used to create the work... but I understand not wanting to work on it because it's too much work already. 15:18, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
 * We link their youtube channels. I'm sure these competitive content creators have at least one video talking about themselves, their weapons, playstyle, team and more. Also, you mentioned these pages being used as references for competitive pages... we can't reference our own material for sources, it's straight up unreliable. Xando, talk 15:38, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
 * @Xando "we can't reference our own material for sources, it's straight up unreliable." when I said add them to the Inkipedia, I meant something similar to the Twitter Archive. Unless that's unreliable as well. 17:07, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Going back to my previous point, what would be on this list and what would its purpose be; you said in your post that you envisioned it as a list for popular competitive players, who are useful enough to be sourced by competitive pages for references." Why would we want a stringent list of acceptable sources? Would it require some sort of policy be put in place? And (in my opinion) most importantly, what would the average wiki reader gain from this list? Freddie (talk) 15:51, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
 * @Freddie, I already stated that there would most likely require a policy in place, because the Inkipedia can't be flooded with random users. To be more specific, i'm not stating the list should just be users who play Splatoon, i'm basically saying there should be a reference page for these people; because they're usually the ones referenced for Competitive play.
 * "what would the average wiki reader gain from this list?" What do people gain exactly from pages like Rina Itou or Anna Sato. The list would have the same purpose as those pages. 17:17, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
 * People gain background knowledge that is otherwise somewhat hard to find on the internet. However, it a'int that hard to go to (example) Chase247's youtube channel to learn about what weapons he mains (dualies), his playstyle (skirmisher), and his twitter handle (probably in the video descriptions). Xando, talk 17:21, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Can someone do this for me? Related to a file I uploaded
Hi! I used to edit under a different name a couple years ago. I don't anymore for various reasons, but I noticed that we didn't have the Splatfest x333 intro animation. SO I found it online and uploaded it. You can find it on my list of edits. Since I can't edit the Splatfest page, can someone add it for me? I'm abandoning this account after I make this post so I won't be replying. Thanks so much! Thecityofredness (talk) 11:14, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

Is there a way to change the way Inkipedia is accessed?
What if, and I'm just spitballing here, we made a free Inkipedia app? It might not serve much extra purpose, but wouldn't it be possible? We could even change the way it is built to better suit phones. Editors and people of power could even have different views of the app. I'm not sure it would work or if its worth the effort, but it could change something. We could even ask for donations (as Wikipedia does) to fund the app so it can be free. Once again, not sure but it might work. NewSquidbeakSplatoon (talk) 20:48, 14 September 2023 (UTC)NewSquidbeakSplatoon (talk) 20:47, 14 September 2023 (UTC)


 * I absolutely love this idea, I just don't know who could do it? I wish that I knew how to make an app. Wave (talk) 04:22, 18 September 2023 (UTC)


 * It would be *exceedingly* difficult to implement. Given the nature of wikis constantly updating, it doesn't really work well with an app structure of layout. It would also be out of date any time it is accessed without an internet connection, and in order to not be a massive download, would probably not be able to display much content. It's a fun idea, but not a terribly practical one. I would also say that we really don't have the development team required to create and maintain something like that, which would make it more difficult to try and implement. Trig - 07:10, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I guess that is sensible. Some things don't really need apps I guess. It was just a little idea that popped into my head. NewSquidbeakSplatoon (talk) 13:49, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

Adding a Tableturf Battle strategy category
Hello everyone, We from the Tableturf Battle community have an idea about having a wiki for explaining Tableturf Battle cards in a competitive setting. This would look similar to the current Category:Weapon strategy category, where every card would have its own page where their strengths and weaknesses can be discussed in detail. We know this would be quite a big project, but many of us are very passionate about Tableturf, so I think it wouldn't take too long to make detailed pages for every card.

I think this could help many low and mid level Tableturf players understand the metagame better, hopefully getting more players into the community. What does the Inkipedia community think about this suggestion? Ljovynn (talk) 18:40, 26 September 2023 (UTC)


 * I think you should start drafting a few pages, to demonstrate whether or not it's a viable article idea. Are you sure there needs to be a page for every card, as opposed to just one page containing all the content? Heddy (talk) 07:09, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Okay, we will start drafting some pages! One page containing all the content would probably be way too large though. Ljovynn (talk) 11:12, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I think that it would be more viable to develop an index of some type of cards, organizing the number/size/type of cards and their shape, rather than creating a new page for each card yet. Maybe there's more competitive Tableturf battlers out there than I though, but I'm not sure how much is warranted. Wave (talk) 16:59, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm also unsure about the viability of one page per card, but a draft can give the community the time and example necessary to judge the viability of the one-card-per-page organization method. A draft would attract editors other than Ljovynn to contribute to the project. A page in competitive space that lists all cards could be created in addition to the individual card pages; the list page would be a starting point for readers and a hub for readers to go back when choosing a card to learn about next. Heddy (talk) 19:27, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
 * The project Ljovynn is talking about now has a dedicated thread on the main Tableturf competitive discord. We're wondering where you would like us to set up the draft. Would a Temporary spot in Category:Weapon strategy be ok? SirNerdbird (talk) 18:01, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
 * On this wiki, we generally create drafts in our user space, meaning pages like User:SirNerdbird/Draft or User:SirNerdbird/Tableturf. Heddy (talk) 22:19, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Cool, thanks SirNerdbird (talk) 23:05, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Yay, glad to see that Tableturf is appreciated. I didn't realize that there was a competitive Discord, and that makes me happy. ^-^ Wave (talk) 02:30, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

About Grizzco Weapons
They appear to be illegally modified…"

I think that phrase is useless, because who has any grasp of what is legal or illegal? Is that perhaps a quote from the official twitter or something? Otherwise I think it's unnecessary, as it portrays something speculated rather than factual.

Unless I'm missing something, which could be likely. Wind Waker  (talk) 20:54, 27 September 2023 (UTC)


 * It is mentioned under Mr. Grizz' profile in Splatoon Base for example.  21:55, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
 * According to that link, the weapons are "illegitimately modified", not "illegally modified". If there are other sources that say this, do all sources use the consistently same wording? If they all say "illegitimately", we should correct the wiki to say that, because while both words can potentially mean the same thing, "illegitimately" is a less-severe word because it can refer to informal rules or culture or traditions, whereas "illegally" refers only to actual law.
 * Either way, the quote is necessary. It's officially part of the lore, and not speculation.
 * Here's my speculation which anyone is free to ignore: the fact that Grizzco Industries continues operating, with those weapons handed out to employees quite often, shows that the weapons are most likely legal under Splatoon government law (serious in-universe laws, not silly game-related in-universe laws), but banned under ink battle law, as it's likely that only pre-approved weapon models can be used in a Turf War or Ranked Battle. Grizzco is work, not a game, so there is no such restriction under Grizzco and no one can arrest anyone for using Grizzco's company property to do their job, as long as the company property doesn't leave the Grizzco work environment. If a police officer asked Grizzco about the weapons, Grizzco would just say "yeah we modified some weapons to convert them into egg harvesting equipment and employee safety equipment, inspect them all you want" and nothing bad would happen to Grizzco. Heddy (talk) 19:32, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
 * That sounds just a bit like speculation, but it still makes sense. On the Splatoon Base website, I'm wondering if the difference between "illegally" and "illegitimately" could be chalked up to a mistranslation. Then again, with the new translation of the website or whatnot, "illegitimately" could be the correct translation.
 * I don't know, I'm not a translator. Wave (talk) 02:29, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I think your speculation is well-founded. I've thought the same tbh Wind Waker Link.jpg S2 Weapon Main Hero Shot Lv. 3.png (talk) 21:12, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I see Wind Waker Link.jpg S2 Weapon Main Hero Shot Lv. 3.png (talk) 21:13, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Most likely they ARE illegally modified. Splatfest Maniac (talk) 18:56, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Most likely, yes, but it's irrelevant to if it is or isn't. Speaking of which, can we get somebody to retranslate it? It's been bugging me in the back of my mind. Wave (talk) 01:52, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
 * We want absolute facts tho, not "most likely"s
 * I'm not trying to sound harsh btw, sorry if it comes off that way :/ Wind Waker Link.jpg S2 Weapon Main Hero Shot Lv. 3.png (talk) 02:12, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Exactly. ^-^ Wave (talk) 02:19, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

Halloween logo theme
Now that it's October, I think we should change the logo to something like this: since Halloween is right around the corner. What do you think? 00:00, 1 October 2023 (UTC)


 * I went ahead and updated the site logo, it should become visible as soon as the website's cache is updated. Enjoy your Spooky Month! Heddy (talk) 01:20, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
 * When does the cache update? Wave (talk) 03:51, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
 * The cache has already updated on Inkipedia's end. If you are not seeing it, then you need to clear the old cache on your end, by restarting your web browser, or by manually clearing the cache with Ctrl+F5, or by clearing data in the web browser settings menu. Heddy (talk) 04:02, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I think It's a great Idea Splatfest Maniac (talk) 18:34, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Good idea. Wave (talk) 03:52, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

Ink Pump Project Page
I just noticed that if you go to the top of the Ink Pump and click on the "Project page" section, it just redirects you back the the current, selected section "Discussion". Is this intentional, or a bug? Wave (talk) 04:06, 2 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Edit: I realized that I didn't communicate all of what I was trying to say. Is there a separate projects page or something that has been removed? I remember one, especially because of Trig's Project Cleanup. Wave (talk) 04:07, 2 October 2023 (UTC)


 * This is intentional. Somewhat unclearly, the "Inkipedia:" namespace is technically called the project namespace. My project is just called that because it needed a name. The point of Ink Pump is to be a discussion setting, so only a discussion page is really needed. That said, it helps navigation to have the main page redirect to this one. Trig - 09:28, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Got it, thanks! Wave (talk) 14:48, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

Why is there no guide to create a page?
I do not understand how to create a page like my user page and I've realized that there is no guide to teach you how to make an edit pages. Onion the Octoling (talk) 19:15, 3 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Creating a page broadly falls under more general MediaWiki knowledge which I think is why we don't have a dedicated help page for it (as opposed to say, tables, where we have cosmetic options unique to our wiki that people might want to know about), but you can find info on creating a page here. I've also just added it to the Help:Contents page, because I had to manually search it out myself not too long ago also and I agree that it probably should not be like that. Haha Driftin Soul (talk) 19:34, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

Match Opening
While we do have a page on the songs that play in the match opening animation in each game, we don't have a page on the opening animations for each game, or the various animations depending on which weapon is equipped. This should probably be added, but I don't think I'm quite up to the task. Wave (talk) 15:09, 9 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Match start animations for all weapon types should already be listed on their pages (see Shooters, Brellas, or Splatanas, for example) so I think there'd be a lack of content for a dedicated page. Driftin Soul (talk) 16:42, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't see one on shooters... Wave (talk) 14:19, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
 * There's a whole section labeled 'Animations', same as with the other two pages I linked. Driftin Soul (talk) 18:01, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I did find it, thanks! Wave (talk) 18:54, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

Ads on Inkipedia
I've noticed since yesterday that I've been getting ads on Inkipedia, despite the fact that they were removed for logged-in users a few months ago. Is anyone else seeing these too, or is it just me? 23:42, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

Inkipedia French and Spanish
I can't speak on Inkipedia Spanish because I haven't gone there, but I can speak on Inkipedia French. Why do these sister wikis exist if nobody updates them? I've gone on a few times to update the wiki, and nobody comes on there except for me and another person, if we're lucky, someone else comes and updates one page before disappearing. Inkipedia French only has content from Splatoon, with the acception of a few pages about Splatoon 2 and 3. Why do these sister wikis exist if nobody is updating them, and I doubt anyone is reading them either. 15:19, 30 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Hmm... that's a good question. I think that we should definitely take a look at that and either remove it or update it. At the very least, it may be a good idea to use Google Translate or some form of program to update it using our English wiki as a reference. Wave (talk) 20:18, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
 * No. Let's not use machine translation. 20:22, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
 * In more detail - yes. I do agree that Machine translations should not be used here, where we have plenty of editors to translate from Japanese to English. However, this would be for a much smaller section of the Splatoon community that currently has no wiki in their language. Even if machine translations are rough around the edges, I don't think we have enough French editors to translate our entire wiki, and it would be better to at least have a partially inaccurate French wiki than no French wiki whatsoever.
 * On the other hand, if we can find some dedicated users to fully translate the wiki, it would be much better than using a machine. As someone who knows a fair bit of French, I think that it's important to make sure that they're accurate. Wave (talk) 18:37, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure it's against Inkipedia policy to use machine translations, even on the French and Spanish wiki. 23:21, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I know that, I'm just pointing out that maybe there should be an exception if there isn't a better solution, because it's a different wiki. On the other hand, maybe it just proves that nobody in France wants a French wiki. Wave (talk) 04:27, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * It's either real translators or nothing. Sorry. Xando (talk) 13:49, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Well then we need to something else then, I think the discussion of machine translations are being debated, but if we aren't allowed to use second hand methods like machine translations, I think Inkipedia French should be closed down. It's a project that has no content, unlike Inkipedia Spanish which has several spanish speakers, the Inkipedia as a whole lacks French speakers. 13:50, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Agreed, ngl. Wave (talk) 14:02, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * It may be wiser to, I don't know, motivate French editors to contribute to the sister wiki rather than shutting them down entirely by basically going "well, your place sucks". I can't tell you to be the change you want to see either, since you are not French.
 * Just like Trig has told you and Randomnamehere, it's not your call to make. Even less so when you are not the target audience. 20:44, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Firmly disagree. There have been a multitude of projects that I have worked on where the editor base is either minimal to outright nothing. Even within NIWA itself, if wikis with prolonged periods of inactivity were shut down, half of the organization would not exist. Sometimes you just need to wait for the right people or the right time. Wars Wiki didn't see almost any activity besides myself for over a year before we got really solid long term editors. Hard Drop, Icaruspedia, and WikiBound are the same way, just to name a few examples. Just because they're not as fleshed out as Inkipedia EN does not mean they will never see work. Also, the statement about having no french speakers is just objectively wrong. I can think of at least three.
 * What matters more, however, is that this isn't your call to make. I'm not sure why you think this is some executive power you wield over the sister site. It's not destructive and seeks to fill an otherwise quite large gap in the video game wiki space for french centric wikis. It does not matter how you feel about this site. That's ultimately up to the webhost, INK FR staff, and *maybe* some input from INK EN bureaucrats. Trig Jegman - 14:27, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Okay, so what happens next if nobody comes to edit the wiki? Sorry if I came off too arrogant, It just irks me that nobody's been editing the place in months and that there's really only 2 major editors on the site. 16:08, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Well, we are on the EN wiki rather than the FR one, so you're likely better off asking | one of the FR wiki staff members. 16:17, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Again, months pales to years like F-Zero or Hard Drop where virtually no changes are made to the site. It's an unfortunate nature of wikis where nobody really wants to help them out. It may also be a publicity issue: A22 does a very good job at advertising and attracting eyes to Inkipedia ES and it just may be that not enough people who could reasonably edit the site knows it exists. I'll see about sending out a message in my network about it. Trig - 17:18, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Okay, I'm kinda done here then. Sorry, I don't really know who to listen to on our "role" towards other wikis. Wave (talk) 02:21, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Chill Season 2023 title card?
Can somebody add the Chill Season 2023 title card to the article of the same name? I'm having trouble sourcing it, so if somebody skilled could do it, then that would be greatly appreciated. Goobersquid (talk) 00:55, 16 November 2023 (UTC)


 * I have added a screenshot of the end of the trailer to the page.  05:05, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Gr8! ^-^ Wave (talk) 04:27, 17 November 2023 (UTC)