Inkipedia:Proposals/Failed/Music and Audio overhaul

This is a policy proposal.

The policy has not been approved yet.

(Suggestion of music and audio overhaul,due to multiple current issues regarding copmpatiblity and copyrightUser:Sol)

Start date: 10 December 2023

End date: 31 December 2023

Suggested outcome 1

Firstly, Clip all Splatoon series OST files in our 'music' section to 30±2 seconds - to allow for fadeout - to comply with widely accepted copyright standards, which will ensure Inkipedia's immunity to Nintendo copyright strikes in the future. Additionally, convert all existing audio files on the website, in a gradual process, to mp3 to allow for better compatibility across all devices. Most notably Apple devices cannot open the .oga files of which over half our current audio recordings are saved as, and considering the widespread nature of the iPhone and other apple devices, aswell as compatibility on all browsers etc, it is without doubt beneficial to make the transition.

Support

1. I support this one, as I do not want copyright strikes--Arceusgjengen (talk) 18:31, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
2. Supporting this, either is fine in my opinion, but this option seems the most plausible. -Random 18:56, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
3. Not quite the time or way I was going to go about this, but I suppose it's been started now. Inkipedia is not a music streaming platform, nor should it have ever been used to listen to the entire soundtrack. Strictly for legal reasons we should absolutely be adhering to option one: Nintendo definitely DOES take down Splatoon music, and quite often (just look at the halloween fest for examples), and just because other people do it does not mean we should engage in copyright infringement. Having a consistent, uniform playback will ensure a quality *sampling* of the soundtrack to allow readers to understand the subject without being able to pirate the soundtrack through our platform. Music samples should be exactly that: samples. A reader does not not reasonably need to hear an entire track to understand its contents when text descriptions can accomplish the same goal. Fair use would absolutely not apply to where we stand now, and given Nintendo's increased crackdowns on how their content is being used digitally (especially for social media platforms), having a heightened sense of due diligence will only ensure the site is allowed to continue as intended. There are plenty of other services available where you are able to listen to full soundtracks. There is also nothing stopping you from downloading music from any service to have both offline and permanently. How you feel about the matter personally does not change the rights that Nintendo possesses over their property or their ability to enforce them. This is only strengthened by the fact that with the existence of the Splatune CDs, where it could be seen as a direct financial threat to the company. It is the legally correct and morally correct option for truncated files. Trig Jegman - 13:48, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
4. Nintendo is known for being one of the most strict companies when it comes to the use of their media. I consider this the second safest option after removing any type of audio file on Inkipedia.   Perfectionist   (talk) 19:15, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
5. I want to keep the music, let alone Inkipedia as a whole, and if trimming music down to ~30 second samples guarantees Inkipedia stays up, then I'm voting for it. If people really want to listen to the full song, the high majority of them are already on other websites anyways (more than *just* YouTube). Switching websites to listen to a song is a small price to pay compared to not having a Splatoon Wiki. SquishyAuri (talk)

Suggested outcome 2

Leave the file lengths as they are, in this opinion the user's experience is favoured, but does not ensure Inkipedia's guaranteed safety which could be detrimential long-term. However still supporting the notion of converting to mp3 files for aforementioned reasons.

Support

1. I really would like to see outcome two be passed out. Inkipedia is one of my main sources for Splatoon music, and for all of them to be shortened to 30 seconds each wouldn't really make me feel great. (I need music to function correctly) I also hope that the files be converted to mp3, because I use iPhone often for Inkipedia and can't listen to the music. I strongly dislike outcome one, because I don't feel like Nintendo really cares, or they would be all over YouTube. (Not sure, speaking from my perspective here) And I feel like some other people agree with me, and use Inkipedia to listen to music. I feel we would all be sad to see the music go, to 30 seconds clips of the wonderful music Splatoon has, and that is why I feel that outcome two is the best outcome, for the people who listen to music, and just want to be happy in general. Stay Fresh! NewSquidbeakSplatoon (talk)
2. Trimming songs to 30 sec. would be extremely detrimental to people who want to listen to the full versions when they don't have the resources to get the official albums from the aftermarket. Nintendo isn't DMCA-ing the living daylights out of YouTube when they uploaded music videos of Liquid Sunshine and Big Betrayal for example in Season promotions. Plus, I believe that it doesn't fit Inkipedia's philosophy of being factual and informative, also people want to "listen" to the music than read a description of "how the full song sounds". I also believe that converting all audio files to .mp3 would expand this franchise's music to a larger audience on Apple devices as stated, can be beneficial. Outcome #2 is, in my opinion, the most logical choice. P.J. GT(talk) 21:34, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
3. I feel that cutting down the audio files is an unnessecary move and would be a very large undertaking for this wiki. There are likely hundreds of files that would need editing, which would be hard for the amount of people who'd actually have the ability to edit them. Not to mention this policy offers no guidelines for how these edits would be made, which makes me question the consistency & quality of them. I also think it should be mentioned that a lot of Splatoon music taken down by Nintendo, like the Splatoween music, has been leaked content. There has been no notable move to remove the videos of the same music, especially posted by the same accounts, after official release. If anything this shows to me that Nintendo does have the ability to take down Splatoon music, but chooses not to. This wiki has existed almost equally as long as the franchise itself, Nintendo is no doubt aware of it. I find it hard to believe that after about 8 years they would only now decide to take action. On the topic of mp3 conversion, this would no doubt better user experience. As long as quality is not lowered in any way, we should strive for the wiki to be accessible across all platforms. kris(talk) 06:26, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
4. I feel like shortened versions of the music, while obviously more legally sound, would not be nearly as effective for reference since most Splatoon tracks take more than 30 seconds to loop, and removing everything after that point has the potential to remove parts of the song that are described or referenced on the wiki (just as one example, the interpolation of Anarchy Rainbow in Daybreaker Anthem, which is referred to on the page, only occurs several minutes into the song). I also think that since Nintendo has not officially released the soundtrack in regions other than Japan, and has generally not issued takedowns of non-leaked Splatoon songs, replacing the versions on Inkipedia is currently not a major priority. This could probably stand to be reevaluated if Nintendo started seriously cracking down on non-leaked Splatoon soundtrack uploads on sites like YouTube, which are higher profile than Inkipedia and thus likely to be a "canary in the coal mine" for a more aggressive approach toward uploaded music. Similarly, if Nintendo began to officially make the soundtrack available in other regions via channels like YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Music, replacing the songs would be a much easier decision since Inkipedia could then link to the full versions of the songs or albums through official channels. But until either of those things happens, I think removing or replacing Inkipedia's music files would be premature. Lyichir (talk) 19:51, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

Do nothing

Vote in this section if you oppose all options, or if you are neutral, or if you wish to abstain.

Discussion

In a contrast to Trig Jegman's argument, I feel like a (excuse my language here) dumb sample and description of what the music would sound like isn't enough. Imagine if you played an instrument like me, and someone just gave you some sheet music. You understand what it "could" sound like, but it leaves you wanting to hear the actual product, with no way to do so. And in my opinion, Trig Jegman, you are trying to do that to the viewers of Inkipedia. Leave them without even an inkling (get the humor there? Inkling means hint or idea.) of what the actual music would sound like and leave them thirsty for the true sound of the music. Mere descriptions cannot do any music justice! Never! You're saying," Music samples should be exactly that: samples. A reader does not reasonably need to hear an entire track to understand its contents when text descriptions can accomplish the same goal." No it doesn't! It really doesn't! I cannot stress this enough, our (excuse my language again here) lame, bland, useless descriptions cannot even begin to cover the music of Splatoon! It can't even try! Let's take Big Betrayal for example. It says,"The first half of the track is in the key of A minor, opening with a lighter chord progression that revolves around the v and bVI (E minor and F major) with synth leads panned left and right that resemble sirens. This transitions into the section in which Shiver and Frye harass Big Man in the music video, with electric bass and synthesizers that share a unison bass line. When the sung vocals begin, the song modulates to Bb minor, with Shiver and Frye singing hits along with the instrumental backing. The chorus comes in after a 1-bar break with the idols harmonizing with a vocoder to a punchy, syncopated melody and is followed by a halftime section similar to Till Depth Do Us Part that loops into the intro." Here is what a reader would definitely be thinking."A MINOR?! I DON'T KNOW WHAT A MINOR IS!!! ISN'T IT A CHORD?! BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT IT SOUNDS LIKE! I CAN'T REMEMBER ANY OF THE CHORDS!!! OH NO! WHAT?! TILL DEPTH DO US PART LOOPS INTO THE INTRO?! WELL WHAT THE FLUFFERNUTTER SANDWICH DOES TILL DEPTH DO US PART SOUND LIKE?! HRMMMMMM?!? I REALLY WISH I COULD ACTUALLY LISTEN TO THE MUSIC, BUT NO APPARENTLY I CAN'T! WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!" That's what our readers would be thinking. We all don't want to leave them like this, we provide information. But if we cut all of the music to 30 seconds, you may as well remove the music in the first place, and leave our readers with nothing. Sorry about the rant, I just feel very strongly for this topic. NewSquidbeakSplatoon (talk)

...you know that youtube uploads exist and will probably continue to do so, right? Like you can just, go there, type the name of the song, and find a bunch of them immediately. I'm not gonna pretend I know all about copyright laws off the top of my head, but people on the internet love ignoring them anyway — the entire OST's very probably already out there, and I could bet it has been for a long time!

(sorry, i took too long to write this and now someone else has answered as well below, lol)

 ♥ #6-Frisk   ‍  19:47, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

And there's several other websites to go to listen to Splatoon music as well. Spotify, game files, etc etc. Music is not limited to the Inkipedia only, and when in crisis, I think it's better if the Inkipedia just shorten it; like others have said, the Inkipedia is not a song only site, it's for all information including the game Splatoon, and by supporting a rule that may or may not get the Inkipedia in legal trouble, you're straining other users from viewing the content.

It's not a first that a website like the Inkipedia has gotten copyright striked and or sued, it probably wont be the last. When it comes to Nintendo, we have to walk on egg shells to not make them mad. It sucks that the music has to be shortened, but I think it's our best option. -Random 20:09, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

I feel strongly otherwise. Name one other wiki that has been sued. Please. By all means, try. (Not sure if any of the other wikis have music, but dunno) Maybe not even a NIWA wiki, maybe even a fandom one. If you can name a single wiki that has been copyright striked and or sued as you say, I may change my mind. If not, then I will stand as I am, and continue to fight for the better option. NewSquidbeakSplatoon (talk) 20:24, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

Do we really need to specifically have a wiki come under legal trouble? There's a precedent for youtube channels being taken down, and just because inkipedia is a wiki rather than a youtube channel doesn't mean we're magically exempt from nintendo legal action.

PS: Making your arguments Bold or TYPING IN ALL CAPS doesn't make your argument stronger. Unnecesarily using these just makes the text harder to read for people. User:Starrynetherlan/Sig 21:04, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

Um...? I use the bolds to emphasize what I'm saying and to present a tone of voice. Either way, I am confident that choice two is the better option. If you could give me a bit more reasoning... I may change my mind. NewSquidbeakSplatoon (talk) 21:14, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

Super Mario Wiki got in trouble for having full tracks. Arceusgjengen (talk) 21:50, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

While I agree that it will leave the user curious and wanting more of the song, I also think that if the reader really wants to hear the full song, they can find it on other platforms such as YouTube (and I'm sure there is more than just YouTube for listening to the songs), which is a small price to pay compared to having no wiki (extending beyond music) at all. Turning them into just samples, while I don't like it, is also the safest option as it avoids any potential copyright/court case and/or fines, which would result in either the entire wiki being taken down (leaving viewers with ACTUALLY nothing), or the wiki is left up but no music at all. Again, I want to keep the full music, I really do, but if someone wants to listen to the songs, most of them can already be found on other websites. SquishyAuri (talk)