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| ==We need to discuss audio use on Inkipedia== | | == Gear navbox renovations == |
| Hey gang. It's time for the discussion nobody wants to really have: Our current audio use is blatantly unacceptable for copyright. More specifically, I am concerned about the presentation of the [[Music]] page and Inkipedia's providing of entire game soundtracks for viewing and download. I do not believe this can be claimed as fair use copyright, and would like to introduce stricter policy in order to prevent any possible issues that could arise. My rough guide can be found [[User:Trig_Jegman/AUP|on this draft page]]. The general summary of changes is the following:
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| *First and most importantly, '''Inkipedia will no longer host full songs on the platform'''. All audio files will be cropped to a maximum of 30 seconds in observance of several other similar policies as to not serve as a substitution for commercial products like Splatune or content exclusive to buying the game (music not released outside the game in official means).
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| *Audio files will be recaptured and standardized in quality. The attempt is to move to using MP3 formatting with a standard quality threshold and loudness. Any files played on Inkipedia should A) be able to be heard on most to all common browsers, B) be of a consistent quality, and C) a consistent volume so users do not need to constantly adjust for playback.
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| *The music page will be rewritten more to discuss broad styles of music and the artists that make them, relative themes, and be more text-focused.
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| It's not something I think a lot of people are necessarily are going to enjoy as an outcome, but it is something that I do believe to be legally necessary. I am requesting feedback on the policy itself, as well as logistics on implementation and questions anyone may have. [[User:Trig Jegman|Trig]] - 02:45, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
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| :I think this is entirely fair. I would like to mention that from what I've heard (I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice), "fair use" is a lot more limited than people tend to say it is, but with how Nintendo has historically acted towards uploads of their soundtracks, it's good to be as safe as possible while maintaining the purpose of the wiki. I do think that the policy could be more strict than 30 seconds, as some songs can be quite short to the point where 30 seconds can really be pushing the boundaries. [[User:XarrotD|XarrotD]] ([[User talk:XarrotD|talk]]) 03:38, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
| | The current gear navboxes sort the gear per initial rarity/star count/star power; I find this sorting system isn't very useful and it's overall difficult to imagine even a very gear-focused player preferring to sort by star power of all things. I've prepared a [[User:Yoshifan52/Sandbox/Gearnav|demonstration of gear navboxes]] in which gear is sorted by brand instead, and would like to propose these as a potential replacement for the current ones. I've also included a variation where per-gear icons are present; I imagine most players do not have most gear pieces' names committed to memory thus icons can help with navigation, though there may be concerns with article loading times as a result of adding a lot of icons. |
| ::30 second samples are pretty common on music stores. Wikipedia recommends [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Music samples|shorter samples for shorter music]], but I think that's too complicated for our needs. I suppose it might be reasonable to use a shorter duration if the song is really short, so long as the sample is long enough to "illustrate the particular instruments or musical elements in a song in a way that a text description cannot" (Wikipedia quote). [[User:Heddy|Heddy]] ([[User talk:Heddy|talk]]) 05:07, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
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| :::English Wikipedia's adherence to "Fair Use" policies is way stricter than is necessary, either theoretically or in practice, and should not be the model/guide we follow here. –[[User:Eli|Eli]] ([[User talk:Eli|talk]]) 13:58, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
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| :Information on deletion of excessive-length audio should probably be added. Like, do we keep audio until a suitable replacement has been uploaded? Or do we delete all music files immediately? I lean towards the latter.
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| :Exceptions should probably be made for audio that is not music. Like, the audio files that have every Inkling/Octoling sound effect. [[User:Heddy|Heddy]] ([[User talk:Heddy|talk]]) 05:07, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
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| :I think the policy is good. I think the rewritten music page will be much better than the current one.
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| :What section of the songs would we use for the 30 second versions? Would it be the first 30 seconds? {{User:GX 64/Sig}} 05:55, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
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| ::I also completely agree with this idea, for obvious copyright reasons, and I think we should try to implement it sooner rather than later. I'd argue that the first 30 seconds would be best no matter what, similar to the S3 jukebox, but I'd go one step further and reduce the length for shorter songs so we aren't hosting the full track - personally, I think the extra faff in editing those would be worth it for the payoff. [[User:GloverMist|GloverMist]] ([[User talk:GloverMist|talk]]) 10:22, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
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| :::I'll actually push back on that. Shorter songs are shorter songs, if they're met in 30 seconds then they are met in 30 seconds. Previewing features on sites don't change for short tracks. I would personally suggest flagging all files with a template indicating a change is made and having a team of people work through them. All would need to be new uploads so old revisions are not found. I am also willing to give a small audacity guide to help users properly edit the clips. I do not think there is an overwhelmingly present need to delete everything outright, but if that's what other users feel is smoothest to do, then it is what should be done. WiKirby, for example, when doing theirs, did not delete everything but rather went one game at a time. [[User:Trig Jegman|Trig]] - 13:59, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
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| :I've shared thoughts on this before but I honestly don't think this is necessary or worth it. It is up to copyright holders to enforce what they may argue as not being Fair Use – which has a wide range of interpretations in the first place. This wiki is strictly for educational purposes, is making no profit and is not charging anyone, and cannot ever be reasonably claimed to be targeting Nintendo's revenue stream or stealing customers from them (this is a website, ''Splatoon'' is a game, different mediums and even userbases, yadda yadda). We don't need to bend over backwards to imagine what Nintendo theoretically could care about (but doesn't, and hasn't for almost a decade now) or walk on eggshells and self-police based on some unfounded, and in practice unrealistic, fear. –[[User:Eli|Eli]] ([[User talk:Eli|talk]]) 14:04, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
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| ::I disagree with the notion of "cannot ever be reasonably claimed to be targeting Nintendo's revenue stream or stealing customers from them". Nintendo reasonably expects members to purchase the soundtrack legally through Splatune or through the purchase of the game itself, and the hosting of said soundtracks are a free alternative to this purchase. Regardless, just because Nintendo has not specifically gone after any particular wikis as of yet does not mean we are not still participating in copyright violations. It is the drastically safer option and morally correct option to make these changes. I would also be dubious of referring to our content as "educational". If this were the case, larger sites like Wikipedia would also be hosting full songs and they also would qualify as "educational". [[User:Trig Jegman|Trig Jegman]] - 14:38, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
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| : I'll preface this by saying these are my views and I am not speaking for the wiki as a whole nor ending the discussion here.
| | As this would be a rather large scale change affecting nearly the entire wiki, I'm eager to hear others' input on the topic. [[User:Yoshifan52|Yoshifan52]] ([[User talk:Yoshifan52|talk]]) 08:00, 6 February 2024 (UTC) |
| :* I agree with Eli: this is a massive undertaking which would involve editing copyrighted material to downsample and trim it, which in itself is a copyright violation. The stance of "short music clips are fine" is a weird line to draw, if we are to follow copyright law. [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Music samples|Wikipedia's style guide]] says "samples should not exceed 30 seconds '''or 10% of the length''' of the original song, '''whichever is shorter'''" (emphasis mine). Furthermore, this actively harms Inkipedia, as you will be destroying previous well-established content that has not been a problem. If not Inkipedia, users will go to other sites to download the songs if they want to do that, and I'd rather they stay here and not download malware from dubious sites.
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| :* On the Nintendo front, this wiki exists and continues to, by Nintendo's good graces. I would be shocked if they do not know about this site. As mentioned, Fair Use is a flimsy argument and if they wanted to, Inkipedia could be shut down overnight, music or not, because the wiki covers copyrighted content (that is, the ''Splatoon'' series). I don't think we should pretend to be lawyers. If Nintendo sends us a message, we will follow it.
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| :* Inkipedia also covers music and audio that is not in Splatune. What about when no better alternatives exist?
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| :* As for something a bit more palatable, we could link to Splatune on the music page and file pages. We should be for the original sourcing anyway.
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| : {{User:Slate/Sig}} 13:45, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
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| ::Well-said – I agree with everything stated above. "I don't think we should pretend to be lawyers" is the crux of my argument, and the framing of this proposed action as "destroying previous well-established content that has not been a problem" is entirely correct. It would be a huge blow to the wiki, is hugely overreaching and a far from naturally or mutually agreed upon interpretation, and would greatly decrease the site's usefulness. Every song is also available on YouTube in full, uploads which are allowed to exist by Nintendo (as they would be removed, selectively blocked, or monetized by the Content ID system if not, which Nintendo is known to use).
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| ::Being able to listen to songs online is not going to stop anyone from buying the game – this is a claim that is unjustifiable, and no existing research proves or even suggests this. This claim is what would need to be legally proven in order to say that this is actually violating a Fair Use doctrine, but everything here is simply your personal opinion and interpretation, @[[User:Trig Jegman|Trig Jegman]], from what I'm understanding. But do you have any sources which specifically back this up, that being able to listen to music from a videogame decreases sales of that videogame? In fact, we [https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/09/eu-study-finds-piracy-doesnt-hurt-game-sales-may-actually-help/ can't even prove that full-blown piracy hurts videogame sales] – there's no link that's been shown.
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| ::A few more points: The songs are not on any official streaming site, and the physical soundtracks are not even officially licensed or sold in the US or any other English-speaking market anyway, only as an import from Japan. Moreover, we are not featuring any music in a manner or purpose of being a file hosting site (it is an encyclopedia); critically, articles here provide ''commentary'' on the original works, further justifying this use. Everything here points to our use of music not being a violation of Fair Use claims… and it's not up to us to self-destruct and somehow disprove this ourselves at a sudden, random point after nearly a decade with no underlying motivation or reason. –[[User:Eli|Eli]] ([[User talk:Eli|talk]]) 06:18, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
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| :::Nintendo has been known to issue takedowns of their music, and they will use it for existing uploads of the Splatoon soundtracks if they catch wind of them. Just because they haven't taken down various uploads on Youtube yet does not mean that they will not in the future. And while our usage of the tracks likely does not cause a significant impact on Nintendo's sales, this does not matter in the end, as Nintendo could issue takedowns as they please.
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| :::I also simply don't see the value in hosting entire tracks as-is. Does it benefit the wiki to host entire songs like this? As the music article currently stands, there is no commentary being added to the music, just the music itself, and providing the entire track is not necessary to provide commentary on it. I personally think that most people would look to uploads of the soundtrack on Youtube instead of the wiki. While we could simply comply with a takedown when they issue one, I think that it's more trouble than it is worth. [[User:XarrotD|XarrotD]] ([[User talk:XarrotD|talk]]) 17:01, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
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| ::::My point is they don't need to issue takedowns – at this point, for any audio portion of any video on YouTube, it's not typically a manual process that has to go through Nintendo, then KADOKAWA, then Google, etc… it gets automatically flagged by the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content_ID_(system) Content ID] digital fingerprinting system which detects unauthorized use before videos even go live, and even for private or unlisted videos. Nintendo does this for some music, but it seems like they've explicitly chosen not to do it with any Splatoon songs, considering there are videos with tens of millions of views that have been live for years. Nintendo even uploads full tracks with music videos themselves, sometimes! There is nothing to either point to the fact that Nintendo wants to restrict this content, or (as stated above) that the availability of music on the internet would impact sales of the entire videogame (a different medium) in any way.
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| ::::Yes, it does benefit the wiki. I'm not only talking about the "Music" article. Check out articles like ''[[Calamari Inkantation]]'' or ''[[Splattack!]]'' with thousands of words talking about the music structure, leitmotifs, cultural references, game usage, variations, and so on. Certain in-game and promotional images even show official music notes on a staff, official dance moves, and so on, and the wiki highlights at what point in songs these pieces relate. That is a critical benefit provided by articles on the wiki as they exist today. People are also free to look up things of their own volition on YouTube or other platforms.
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| ::::You're phrasing things like "when they issue one" as if this is for some reason inevitable, but have absolutely zero evidence behind why you think this will happen, as opposed to ''if'' it will ever happen, which it hasn't for almost a decade. Nothing suggests this will happen. The only thing that is "more trouble than it is worth" is revising every music file on the entire wiki now, for no reason, rather than continuing to be prudent, reactive, and operating in good faith. Complying with DMCA takedown requests if third-parties issue them is how websites (and ISPs and hosting providers) operate and we have no justification or reason to act in a starkly different manner to essentially every other website out there. (Heddy also mentioned more about this in their now-removed [https://splatoonwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Inkipedia_talk%3AInk_Pump&type=revision&diff=465686&oldid=464418 comment] – but I'm linking it here because it speaks to this point as well.) –[[User:Eli|Eli]] ([[User talk:Eli|talk]]) 11:25, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
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| :::::I still don't think we need to host entire tracks, although the usage of a full song if analysis is provided is a decent use. I will also mention that content ID cannot differentiate between gameplay videos and uploads of soundtracks, and Nintendo is supportive of gameplay content. Because of this, they cannot issue automatic takedowns as it would risk getting gameplay videos taken down. With how Nintendo acts when it comes to content on Youtube (yes, they have issued major takedowns, albeit on a rather irregular basis), I see no reason why they would not act similarly to the full soundtracks being made available on a wiki site. I think it's okay if we simply comply with takedowns as they are issued, and I think there is a high chance of it happening. [[User:XarrotD|XarrotD]] ([[User talk:XarrotD|talk]]) 17:59, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
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| ::::::Re: ''"I see no reason why they would not act similarly to the full soundtracks being made available on a wiki site [...] I think there is a high chance of it happening."'' – any ideas as to why it hasn't happened for over 8 years, then? Serious question. What makes you think there's a high chance? Nothing points to this being likely.
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| ::::::Re: ''"I think it's okay if we simply comply with takedowns as they are issued"'' – agreed. –[[User:Eli|Eli]] ([[User talk:Eli|talk]]) 19:37, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
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| :::::::As somebody who has made the entire OST (of all three games) into a playlist on YT without uploading a single new video, I can testify that there is all of the material that we have simply available on YouTube. It's a platform that Nintendo uses, and they haven't issued takedowns for almost any of the material there.
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| :::::::# We can leave the audio files the way they are on the Music page, and comply with any takedowns that Nintendo issues.
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| :::::::# We cut all of our audio files down to 30 seconds or however long we decide for each one, but we add links to the songs on YouTube, maybe on an official soundtrack like VGM Haven for the first 2 games and the Nintendo Music Channel for the 3rd.
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| :::::::# We cut all of our audio files down to 30 seconds and deal with potential backlash for it.
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| :::::::I still think that 1 is the best option, because Nintendo hasn't issued anything yet on the full soundtracks on YouTube that have millions of views, so they wouldn't gun for us first. *shrug* [[User:WavePrism|Wave]] ([[User talk:WavePrism|talk]]) 19:00, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
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| :Umm...
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| :You posted this like it was just something that was happening. I think that's a problem. It should be a proposal. [[User:WavePrism|Wave]] ([[User talk:WavePrism|talk]]) 19:09, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
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| ::Not ignoring this, just haven't had time to respond succinctly. I like the second option of having domestic trimmed tracks and embedding or linking to YouTube for the soundtracks as an option. I didn't want to launch this straight into a proposal because I wanted to feel the waters around first. [[User:Trig Jegman|Trig]] - 21:32, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
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| :::Relying on centralized, third-party (and low quality) sites like YouTube might be the second-best option for user experience, but isn't a good practice for archival/documentation purposes. (Hell, [https://archive.org/details/splatune-cd-rip the Internet Archive] actually has the full soundtrack(s) too…) But there is, frankly, nothing to support the suggestion that we should proactively spend a lot of time trimming tracks (especially considering nothing points to any potential violation of Fair Use in the first place, so this is totally unnecessary, if we're assuming good faith here) instead of bettering the wiki in other ways. –[[User:Eli|Eli]] ([[User talk:Eli|talk]]) 04:45, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
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| :::I can link to my playlist to give us a base selection of songs to link to, so lmk if we end up doing that. [[User:WavePrism|Wave]] ([[User talk:WavePrism|talk]]) 13:30, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
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| :No matter what happens, I really support making the music page more text-focused. [[User:Arceusgjengen|Arceusgjengen]] ([[User talk:Arceusgjengen|talk]]) 10:37, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
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| ::Hey Trig -
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| ::Just giving more info. About half of the songs on my playlist have disappeared because they are no longer available on the page of the person who uploaded them (The Nintendo Music Channel). I would guess that this is a copyright takedown from Nintendo or something, so...
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| ::I think that it also removed some of their other content, such as Smash Bros. songs. Could this mean something? I have a more genuine fear of Nintendo doing a takedown of their material. [[User:WavePrism|Wave]] ([[User talk:WavePrism|talk]]) 16:23, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
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| :::If you go to the video link it shows you the reason for the video not being playable. The account owner may have shut down the account or set the videos to private, the entire account may have been shut down for different copyright-related reasons, the specific videos may have been changed so they are only not playable in your geographical region, etc. You shouldn't wildly guess here; you should simply go to the relevant URL to see the actual reason. Smash Bros is developed by a different company and follows different licensing than Splatoon (SmaBro's music is licensed by a mix of club.nintendo, Bandai Namco, TEICHIKU RECORDS, etc. and Splatoon is KADOKAWA/Enterbrain) – this isn't indicative of anything and the activities of one random YouTube channel should not make you "fear" more here. –[[User:Eli|Eli]] ([[User talk:Eli|talk]]) 19:06, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
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| ::::Okay, it just startled me when half my playlist too. Also, VGM Haven is starting to lose songs too, so there might be a trend. I still couldn't find why it was taken down. [[User:WavePrism|Wave]] ([[User talk:WavePrism|talk]]) 15:40, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
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| == Automated translations ==
| | :I would like more feedback from gear-focused players but in my opinion it seems like a fair change [[User:Olivia|Olivia]] ([[User talk:Olivia|talk]]) 09:17, 6 February 2024 (UTC) |
| | :I really really like this idea! Whenever I look for gear through the navbox, it's always difficult because I don't even know what star power is to begin with. I do however, know and love the brands, so this change would help me tremendously. Stay Fresh! {{User:NewSquidbeakSplatoon/Sig}} 11:02, 6 February 2024 (UTC) |
| | :Having per-gear icons definitely seems very good, I think that would be sufficiently helpful on its own even without splitting navboxes based on brand (which has the side effect of making the navboxes take up significantly more space). The icons don't presently get pushed onto a new line which makes it a little confusing to read, but if that's on the table to fix, that would strike my only major complaint with it. [[User:Driftin Soul|Driftin Soul]] ([[User talk:Driftin Soul|talk]]) 17:05, 7 February 2024 (UTC) |
| | ::I hadn't thought about the new length potentially being an issue, good point. I'm not sure how to work around that, my understanding is the majority of gear-focused players tend to gravity towards the brand mechanics of the game rather than any other aspect that could be used as a categorization system. |
| | ::[[User:Yoshifan52/Sandbox/Gearnav#Alternative test|Here's a rough around the edges demo]] where all of S3's headgear is in one chunk, sorted alphabetically; it's still decently long, but perhaps more manageable in that department? I think it looks a bit too plain and somewhat messy without a categorization system. Not sure what other approach can be taken... [[User:Yoshifan52|Yoshifan52]] ([[User talk:Yoshifan52|talk]]) 20:06, 12 February 2024 (UTC) |
| | :::Would it be possible to, within the infobox, collapse by default all brands that the page does ''not'' belong to? That's one possible solution that comes to mind. |
| | :::Having it split by starting letter (again, non-applicable letters collapsed) could be a similar approach. [[User:Driftin Soul|Driftin Soul]] ([[User talk:Driftin Soul|talk]]) 20:14, 12 February 2024 (UTC) |
| | ::::I'm not sure it would be possible to automate that (and setting it up manually would be unnecessarily messy and complex)... [[User:Yoshifan52|Yoshifan52]] ([[User talk:Yoshifan52|talk]]) 20:57, 12 February 2024 (UTC) |
| | :::::Hmm... yeah, if it can't be automated that's definitely a big strike against it. Would definitely also result in some weird edge cases with gear that changed brands (and/or names) between games. [[User:Driftin Soul|Driftin Soul]] ([[User talk:Driftin Soul|talk]]) 21:00, 12 February 2024 (UTC) |
| | :::Your demo is really nice!!! I love the gear organized one better tho, is the best option imo. We should think really hard and see which one comes out on top! The alphebetical one is nice, but I don't know. Looks kinda like '''BLUHHHERESEVERYSINGLEHEADGEARRIGHTINFRONTOFYOUIF YOUWANNAFINDSOMETHINGYOUGOTTALOOKTHROUGHITALLBLUUH''' Not really very optimal, right? It's not bad, just not the best. Stay Fresh! {{User:NewSquidbeakSplatoon/Sig}} 21:00, 12 February 2024 (UTC) |
| | ::::Trig's sent me [[User:Trig Jegman/Gearnav|this demo]] as an alternative with the perspective of a player who doesn't care much for gear/brands. I think this format handles the length issue while making it read better; what do you think? I still like my by-brand categorization but I'm not sure it's the most practical. [[User:Yoshifan52|Yoshifan52]] ([[User talk:Yoshifan52|talk]]) 00:08, 13 February 2024 (UTC) |
| | :::::Oh I like that |
| | :::::Solves my issues with the gear names/icons ending up on different lines if nothing else, which helps readability a lot. [[User:Driftin Soul|Driftin Soul]] ([[User talk:Driftin Soul|talk]]) 00:10, 13 February 2024 (UTC) |
| | ::::::Apologies for the huge delay; I've [[User:Yoshifan52/Sandbox/Gearnav|updated my demo]] to match the formatting system Trig sent. I've added per-brand navboxes as well: the idea is a piece of gear's page would list both types of navbox. For example, the page for Barrelfish Baseball Hat would feature a navbox for all S3 headgear, as well as a navbox for all S3 Skalop gear. This might get a bit busy in cases where a single piece of gear has been in all three games thus far, but overall seems to be the best possible option for per-brand navboxes. Let me know what you think! [[User:Yoshifan52|Yoshifan52]] ([[User talk:Yoshifan52|talk]]) 04:08, 31 March 2024 (UTC) |
| | :::::::Wow… this is absolutely incredible!!! Must've took some hard work to take the current format and rework it per game and category, then do it again for gear brand and game! Some of the spacings are a bit awkward, but I'm on mobile so that might be it? Still looks amazing! It's wonderful! I hope everyone else thinks the same. Stay Fresh! {{User:NewSquidbeakSplatoon/Sig}} 21:23, 31 March 2024 (UTC) |
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| We've talked about translating material a few times and the primary gripe is editors using Google translate, which is notorious for being inaccurate. I propose a few solutions:
| | :I find it difficult to find particular gear in the current navboxes. I usually use the lists (like this one [[List of headgear in Splatoon 3]]) instead. I prefer the variation with icons. I think the icons make it much easier to find items. The weapon navboxes also have icons, so including icons in the gear navboxes will make them more similar. {{User:GX 64/Sig}} 00:43, 8 February 2024 (UTC) |
| | :I certainly support using icons, they greatly improve navigation because users are much more likely to remember a piece of gear based on its appearance than its name. Honestly I am neutral on how to split them, star power is least useful but does split in a neat way, brand is most useful but makes the nav incredibly long, and no split at all is a neat compromise but I think it's a little weird having a nav with zero split. But if there's no need for a split then, well it doesn't need one. So I essentially support all three, yeah not very helpful I know. - [[User:Harristic|Harristic]] ([[User talk:Harristic|talk]]) 00:45, 22 February 2024 (UTC) |
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| # We write a formal policy that bans machine translations.
| | Having every gear icon load on every gear page may bloat up the pages considerably. I think this is one of the reasons the weapon pages are so heavy on load time. Is there another method that could be used to make things easier to find without adding images? [[User:Heddy|Heddy]] ([[User talk:Heddy|talk]]) 00:38, 22 February 2024 (UTC) |
| # We allow the machine translations, but editors must also use a note/template that says this is machine-translated / needs verifying.
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| # We have a bot that adds machine translations using Deepl, for editors to verify after the fact. The translations could be tagged as bot translations.
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| In any case, I could make a check for machine translations. {{User:Slate/Sig}} 13:54, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
| | :Heddy is right, would significantly increase load time, because there is a lot, and I mean '''A LOT''' more gear than there are weapons. I'm not sure how to tackle this, because Harristic is right. I remember something better off of appearance than name, because if I saw it on say, a Reddit post, I wouldn't know the name. I'd come to Inkipedia and look at the images to find it! Maybe if we could somehow compress the file or something similar, to be able to handle it better and not make 10 minute load times. I don't know if that is possible, but yeah. To sum it up, make the images easier to present, so it doesn't slow the website down. Stay Fresh! {{User:NewSquidbeakSplatoon/Sig}} 01:05, 22 February 2024 (UTC) |
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| :My ideal solution would be to allow the use of DeepL, provided that the translations are clearly marked as such in the article. I'd have a category created for these articles, so that they can be reviewed by fluent speakers of the languages. I think that a formal policy about this would be necessary, so that users who use other, less reliable, bot translators, or do not mark bot translations properly, can be punished. Even if we ban all machine translations, a formal policy regarding translations is long overdue, which has resulted in a large amount of machine translations being added to the wiki by unknowing users. {{User:Eminence/Sig}} 14:59, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
| | == What are we going to do about Hong Kong and South Korea? == |
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| ::Given Inkipedia's wide language base, I support option 1 with not permitting any machine translations period end of sentence. [[User:Trig Jegman|Trig]] - 15:44, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
| | As the title says, what are we going to do about Hong Kong and South Korea for the Splatfest navboxes (the previous and next template)? For reference, during region-locked Splatfests, North America, Europe, and Japan all have their separate navboxes, however, Hong Kong and South Korea do not. Are they going to get their own, separate navbox on Splatoon 3's region-locked Splatfest pages, or are they going to be combined with one of the already existing ones? |
| :::I agree, even with a notice it's better to avoid making errors and spreading possible misinfo. {{User:Krisbear/Sig}} 15:49, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
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| ::::I think that it would be good to check for machine translations, maybe adding it as a project as well. I don't think that it would be a good idea to outright ban machine translations, because they would have their merits for early translations of new material. We should DEFINITELY add a tag for them, though. [[User:WavePrism|Wave]] ([[User talk:WavePrism|talk]]) 17:53, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
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| :I vote for #1 – any other method is irresponsible and leads to more misinformation being circulated. Notes about MTL are not good enough for people (especially fans of this game, historically) to not take these translations at face value, and only results in more bad translations circulating. An especially relevant case of this was regarding one of the new tweets from a few days ago about some new music track, which had a phrase that both Google Translate and DeepL translated as "skanky" instead of "ska". Re: proposal #3, there is no way to reliably detect text as being machine translated or not – while telltale signs do exist, this is an open, unsolved problem and we don't need actually-translated-by-a-human-who-knows-what-they're-doing text getting incorrectly flagged.
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| :We have multiple people doing proper translation work for this series (as Trig also mentioned above) and don't need to devalue their work by littering MTL all over the place or bringing down the high-quality and accuracy that this wiki prides itself on. –[[User:Eli|Eli]] ([[User talk:Eli|talk]]) [[User:Eli|Eli]] ([[User talk:Eli|talk]]) 11:39, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
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| :Agree with Trig and Eli on #1. Additionally, seeing as some users have already disregarded (or haven't noticed?) the policy surrounding leaks, it's likely that many machine translations won't be tagged properly. {{User:Anemoia/Sig}} 11:52, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
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| ::Do we have enough active translators to reliably translate all of the material? [[User:WavePrism|Wave]] ([[User talk:WavePrism|talk]]) 18:42, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
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| :::It depends on what you mean by "all the material" (is that even possible?) but the major/important stuff gets translated, yes. I often get pinged on Discord by @[[User:Perfectionist|Perfectionist]] when material they're looking at (which is pretty comprehensive, in my experience) needs some clarification. :P –[[User:Eli|Eli]] ([[User talk:Eli|talk]]) 04:38, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
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| :I would prefer banning machine translations, since they often have errors. I don't think it is necessary to have them on Inkipedia, since people can use things like Google Translate or DeepL themselves if they would like to read a machine translation. {{User:GX 64/Sig}} 04:36, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
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| ::I agree – people should feel free to use these tools themselves (as we always provide a reference/link to the original Japanese, if not mirroring the text as well) but output from them at one point in time doesn't need to be baked into articles on the wiki. –[[User:Eli|Eli]] ([[User talk:Eli|talk]]) 04:40, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
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| :I am for option 1, as I can't consider the other two options options. Every edit on Inkipedia is appreciated, as it reflects time and work invested to improve a page. Translating dialogues asks for knowledge on almost fluent level, as the conversations held build up on each other and sometimes require understanding of idioms and puns as well as language specific rules for grammar you won't always get from using a translation software. While the thought of adding to a page is appreciated the approach of copy-pasting sentences from translation software to wiki is not work, but work for those who have to clean up afterwards. A translation software can be used the way it is supposed to be, namely helping with vocabulary or deep thought requiring sentences, but I am assuming that the editor is second guessing and overviewing before finishing an edit. Editors without knowledge of the language can't do that however, which is why I can't support any form of machine based translation. {{User:Perfectionist/Sig}} 10:13, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
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| ::Agreed. [[User:WavePrism|Wave]] ([[User talk:WavePrism|talk]]) 13:32, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
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| :I have a question, is it considered machine translations to look up certain words using AI because I'm still learning? If so, i'll stop doing that. {{User:Randomnamehere/Sig}} 15:25, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
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| ::Wouldn't that be looking up a word in the dictionary, rather? {{User:Anemoia/Sig}} 15:31, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
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| :::If you need to look up word translations frequently, you don't have enough fluency to make translations on the wiki. {{User:Eminence/Sig}} 15:34, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
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| ::::It's not frequent, there's just random times where there's sayings and idioms that I don't understand so I look them up. {{User:Randomnamehere/Sig}} 15:46, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
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| ::::Hmm... harsh much?
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| ::::...sorry. [[User:WavePrism|Wave]] ([[User talk:WavePrism|talk]]) 16:06, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
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| :::::Oh yeah, it can be difficult to discern the proper translation for idioms, especially if the language isn't your native language. {{User:Eminence/Sig}} 16:20, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
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| ::::::^-^ [[User:WavePrism|Wave]] ([[User talk:WavePrism|talk]]) 19:42, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
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| :While I prefer option 2, it looks like most people prefer option 1.
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| :We need a policy proposal to put this topic to rest. Does anyone want to submit a [[Inkipedia:Proposals|policy proposal]] based on option 1? [[User:Heddy|Heddy]] ([[User talk:Heddy|talk]]) 14:58, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
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| :I feel like the policy should be #1, but only ban outright translation of entire texts or dialogues, and not any usage of machine translation at all. Alternatively, I would phrase it as a ban on '''unedited''' machine-translated text.
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| :In my opinion the test of "should this be on the wiki" needs to be "are you confident in the accuracy of the translation" and not "which tools have you used to make it".
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| :<table class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"><tr><td>'''More points (lots of text warning)'''</td></tr><tr><td>
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| :It might also be convenient for editors, especially ones who are not as fluent in English as they are in the source language, to form a skeleton sentence and then edit it to be more accurate.
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| :Even as a fluent speaker, I do not know offhand the names of some species or technical terms that are used in the game or as basis for puns even in my own native tongues, let alone in English or Japanese - if I run into any of those, I put in the time to research (see for example [[Splatoon_Turf_Quiz#cite_note-2|this lovely bit of trivia]] I recently found while translating one of the Splatoon Turf Quiz questions), but I understand that some people do not want to put in that effort.
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| :As noted by others in this discussion, it might also be hard to discern whether a translation was machine-generated or not (especially with DeepL that sometimes has inaccurate meanings but usually forms a proper English sentence), meaning that another fluent editor would have to come in and effectively do a "proper" translation for every bit of text in the language they are fluent in.
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| :I've run into this problem myself - as I'm native in one of the languages represented on this wiki, native-level fluent in two more, and conversational in several others, I usually have edits where I add many of the foreign names of a new page and the translations for whichever ones I understand or manage to find - leaving the others only in the source language. In one case, I was called out on my user page by another well-meaning editor for using the word "freighter" and not "cargo ship" even though they are synonyms, because the English word I chose happened to be the one that Google Translate suggested and not the word that preserves the same Latin root of the word - and the person calling me out accused me of using Google Translate for all my translations even though I don't do that.
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| :I don't mind the wiki setting a high standard for translation, but that would mean we, as a community, would have to certify a certain user or certain users per language, to be the only ones allowed to enter or approve English translations from that language, and all other contributions would have to be either in source language only (leaving the translation part empty) or removed and those in charge of the language pinged. Of course this would also require those translation monitors to be available and timely in their work, since this is a live game and timely translation of content is crucial as updates come out - personally I am not comfortable demanding that of other editors; nor am I confident that we have editors who are of a high enough level in each of the languages the game supports that have that level of availability.</td></tr></table> {{User:Inkrid/Sig}} 16:05, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
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| ::Point taken. I can still continue to see the benefits of machine translations when working with translations and projects. However, I don't think that many of the editors that would use machine translators to help aid in translations would have the same level of control, expertise, and dedication to accuracy that a human translator, perhaps with help from a machine translator, would use.
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| ::One example of positive machine translation that I would cite would be rassicas, who has used DeepL in the past. However, they have always edited the translation by hand to ensure quality and accuracy. In general, the level of accuracy from machine translations will deteriorate unless the user is able to edit the raw translation. Regrettably, I think that this is unavoidable for the bulk of users.
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| ::Perhaps we could add a group of editors that are "licensed translators" and may use machine translators to aid in their workload. In general, it has been stated in this forum that we, in fact, do have enough translators that are able to meet the needs of the community without machine translations. I will admit that I have not seen this in action, but I don't have a reason to doubt. As far as I can tell, we have sufficient experience, and the problems usually stem from new users translating.
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| ::And hey, licensing translators through some form of experience check could mean new Barnsquids for their experience! I think that the translators need more recognition. [[User:WavePrism|Wave]] ([[User talk:WavePrism|talk]]) 15:49, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
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| :I prefer option 2 as I use machine translation on a day by day basis. I prefer to have translation than nothing at all or to expect our readers to translate on their own. I also think we don't have the editors in high level language who are willingly to translate everything we cover. (See [[Splatoon Turf Quiz]] for example) [[User:Shahar|Shahar]] ([[User talk:Shahar|talk]]) 16:25, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
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| ::While I originally thought the same thing, we do have enough high-level translators (myself not included). You're always welcome to use machine translation on your own, but for the wiki as a whole it's always a situation of providing the community with accurate lore and data, which we are known for. By using machine translations, we are liable to make mistakes, which can be avoided by our translators. In any case, Nintendo is starting to translate their own developer interviews (i.e. Ask the Developer - Splatoon 3 News), which could be promising for more accurate translations by Nintendo themselves, and hopefully more careful localization in the future. Now that Splatoon 3 is out, the series seems to be moving in a more commercial direction, which may call for less new translations needed. [[User:WavePrism|Wave]] ([[User talk:WavePrism|talk]]) 13:39, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
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| == H2whoa Band Members name? ==
| | I asked this before [https://splatoonwiki.org/wiki/Talk:Handshake_vs._Fist_Bump_vs._Hug here], but it was ignored. {{User:Random/Sig}} 19:52, 12 February 2024 (UTC) |
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| Is there any way that we could find band member names based on OKUTOPASUTAKO and NAGAREHANASANGO? It seems like they're both long enough to be a first name and a last name, but we don't have any more evidence (I think). [[User:WavePrism|Wave]] ([[User talk:WavePrism|talk]]) 17:48, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
| | :From what I have been told by other editors, it is currently impossible for HK and SK to have their own set Splatfest; their theme & results always have to be combined with one of the other three regions. As such, I don't think we have to be concerned about it unless something changes in the future to allow unique themes & results. [[User:Driftin Soul|Driftin Soul]] ([[User talk:Driftin Soul|talk]]) 19:58, 12 February 2024 (UTC) |
| | ::Alright. {{User:Random/Sig}} 20:04, 12 February 2024 (UTC) |
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| :Those are definitely just their species. OKUTOPASUTAKO is a combination of "OKUTOPASU" (a transliteration of "Octopus") and "TAKO" ("Octopus" in Japanese), confirming the left band member is an octoling."NAGAREHANA SANGO" is the Japanese name of [[wikipedia:Euphyllia_ancora|anchor coral]], which the right band member seems to be based off of. {{User:Cackle/Sig}} 18:00, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
| | == How do I put pictures from my photo gallery onto my page? == |
| ::Thanks! I hope that we get the band members names soon, though, because I really need '''lore''' for them now.
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| ::*aggressive introverting* [[User:WavePrism|Wave]] ([[User talk:WavePrism|talk]]) 18:22, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
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| :::We'll probably get the names of the members through [https://www.nintendo.co.jp/character/splatoon/music/ Splatoon Base] when it next updates, so keep a look out for that! You'll probably gonna be waiting a while, though, because we still don't have the names of the Damp Socks members haha. Hopefully it'll update when Side Order comes out. {{User:Cackle/Sig}} 18:29, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
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| ::::Side Order - Maybe trailer at Nintendo Live? Frankly, I've just given up at this point. :( [[User:WavePrism|Wave]] ([[User talk:WavePrism|talk]]) 18:34, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
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| ::::::))))))) [[User:WavePrism|Wave]] ([[User talk:WavePrism|talk]]) 03:54, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
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| == Daybreaker Anthem? ==
| | This is probably the stupidest question ever, but I need help. I use Inkipedia from my phone, and I was trying to create my user page, but I couldn't find anything for importing a photo from my phone's gallery. Is there any way to do that or do I have to do something crazy like download it? [[User:Sandy&Altie|Sandy&Altie]] ([[User talk:Sandy&Altie|talk]]) 15:34, 17 March 2024 (UTC) |
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| If I remember correctly, the song listed above was found in the files of the Version [[Version 5.0.0 (Splatoon 3)|5.0.0]] update for [[Splatoon 3|''Splatoon 3'']]. This song seems to be made by deep cut & is 5 minutes in length. I cannot find an exact source stating the credibility of this but I do know that the song has been uploaded on external sites quite a bit.
| | :To upload an image, you need to go to the [[Special:Upload|File Upload]] page. Before you upload an image, read the image guidelines and the file template information provided at the top of the page so you know the wiki's policies about uploading files! Keep in mind, users can have at most 7 personal images for their userpages. To display the image on your userpage, you would write [<nowiki/>[File:Your file's name.jpg|50px]] You can increase the image's size on your page by entering a bigger number before the px, I used 50 as an example. If you do increase the size make sure the image doesn't go off the side of the page. Hope this helps!! {{User:Oddlilgoof/Sig}} 16:48, 17 March 2024 (UTC) |
| | ::if u are getting the pics from ur switch u have to click share then click send to smartphone [[User:Faulty chair|Faulty chair]] ([[User talk:Faulty chair|talk]]) 12:07, 18 March 2024 (UTC) |
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| I was wondering if this should be added or not yet, and if we did, would {<nowiki/>{[[Template:Leak|Leak]]}} or {<nowiki/>{[[Template:Future|Future]]}} be used?[[User:VibeCat|VibeCat]] ([[User talk:VibeCat|talk]]) 21:13, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
| | == Salmon Run "Tips" sections == |
| :It was requested for deletion per [[INK:Leak|the leaks policy]]. Once it actually releases, we will add it back to the site. [[User:Trig Jegman|Trig Jegman]] - 21:32, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
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| ::Alright, thanks for the clarification. The last thing I'd want to do is make a page that is against the policy! [[User:VibeCat|VibeCat]] ([[User talk:VibeCat|talk]]) 21:35, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
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| == Are the back covers for the manga not uploaded? ==
| | So it's been bothering me for a while, the Tips sections on Salmon Run related pages are not great. They have to be miles long to cover all relevant info (For example: [[Rush]]), they don't separate info between games, they actively recommend mediocre to bad strategies (wall clinging on Rush), they gloss over Snatcher optimization, etc... I want to fix them, but for the pages to be actually helpful and as extensive as I think they should be, they would most likely need to be separate from the regular pages to keep it organized. |
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| I was going to organize some character galleries when I saw almost none of the back covers weren't uploaded. are they on the site and I can't find them, or is this really a mistake? [[User:Octoru|Octoru]] ([[User talk:Octoru|talk]]) 19:10, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
| | Something related to this was brought up in the discord and StrategyWiki was mentioned, but when I asked if that's where this should really go I didn't get a reply; I've been told that StrategyWiki mainly focuses on singleplayer or games with linear levels so I'm not sure if Salmon Run would fit there in the first place. I had the thought of making competitive-like pages for it since Big Run and Eggstra Work are in-game competitive events, but I don't think that's the intended use for the namespace. But surely we could figure something out? |
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| :Nobody has ever seen a reason to upload the back covers of manga. If you have a good reason why they should be uploaded, feel free to bring it up here. If you'd like to upload them yourself, images of the back cover are generally found on online retail sites. {{User:Eminence/Sig}} 20:53, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
| | The main reason I want to do something about this is that Salmon Run has been my favorite part of Splatoon since S2, but in general it has no central resource for information. Most is spread across youtube videos, discord servers, and google docs linked through either of those, which is extremely inaccessible. I know Salmon Run isn't nearly as popular as the PvP, but it's still a full game mode and if we're going to have gameplay advice for it at all I think we should have it more organized than it is now. I'm not even necessarily advocating for overfishing strategies to be covered since I know that community is pretty niche. |
| ::Alright, I'll upload them then. Thanks. [[User:Octoru|Octoru]] ([[User talk:Octoru|talk]]) 16:08, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
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| == Something wrong with the templates on the Season pages ==
| | To summarize: The Salmon Run pages' Tips sections are annoying to read at best and unhelpful at worst. I would like to make proper strategy pages ''somewhere'', but I don't know if that's something others believe would belong on Inkipedia specifically. Hoping to start a discussion here. [[User:Sourguppyworm|Sourguppyworm]] ([[User talk:Sourguppyworm|talk]]) 22:29, 3 April 2024 (UTC) |
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| For [[Drizzle Season 2022]], [[Chill Season 2022]], [[Fresh Season 2023]], and [[Sizzle Season 2023]] the template used in the [[Chill Season 2022#Locker Customizations|Locker Customizations]] section does not work. What the issue is, is a mystery to me. I also tried it on a different device to no avail. {{User:Randomnamehere/Sig}} 01:15, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
| | == Trivia section == |
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| :Fixed. There were some apostrophes missing on the original lists, which prevented them from being called correctly. {{User:Eminence/Sig}} 18:21, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
| | I've noticed that a lot of the trivia sections for some pages say tidbits but don't specify in which game it comes from, such as [[Flounder Heights]] mentioning the ghost in one of the apartments, but it doesn't specify that it's only in Splatoon 3. Another good example is the [[Hero Suit]] page mentioning Agent 3, but once again, does not say which Agent 3. Should we add subsections or a note in those kinds of entries? [[User:Rozelia The Octo06|Rozelia The Octo06]] ([[User talk:Rozelia The Octo06|talk]]) 22:22, 7 April 2024 (UTC) |
| ::There's still an issue with the [[Fresh Season 2023#Tableturf Battle|Tableturf Battle section]]. {{User:Randomnamehere/Sig}} 18:44, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
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| == No Competitive:Splatana Wiper Deco? ==
| | :The game which the trivia is from should be mentioned. The way that the game is specified is slightly inconsistent across different pages, but it seems to be either mentioning which game it's from in the trivia item (like some of the trivia here [[Cuttlefish#Trivia]]), or split into different sections for each game (like these pages [[Agent 3 (Splatoon)#Trivia]], [[Judd#Trivia]]). The different sections seem to be used when there is a larger amount of trivia. {{User:GX 64/Sig}} 05:57, 8 April 2024 (UTC) |
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| Was on the wiki earlier and noticed a lack of a competitive page for [[Splatana Wiper Deco]]. I'm not necesarily a competitive player so I couldn't really contribute much to the making of this, but I was curious if there is a reason this page doesn't exist? {{User:VibeCat/Sig}} 20:01, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
| | == Coloring color chip template == |
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| :The weapon strategy pages are an ongoing project on the wiki and many weapons do not have pages yet. It will get added eventually when someone has the time and knowledge. Additionally, the Splatana Wiper Deco is a relatively new weapon, meaning there isn't a lot of competitive knowledge about it yet. {{User:Eminence/Sig}} 21:55, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
| | is it possible to color the color chip template? I tried to link color it, but it's not working. This kinda applies to other templates w text. [[File:RotM Icon Frye.png|25px|link=User:Squidcat]] <span style="border-radius:20px;background-color:#e6e6e6;padding:5px">[[User:Squidcat|<span style="color:#000000">'''Squidcat''']] [[User talk:Squidcat|<span style="color:#404040">(talk)</span>]]</span> 13:53, 12 April 2024 (UTC) |
| ::I just want the Inkbrush page updated... I could use some help with my skill level there. [[User:WavePrism|Wave]] ([[User talk:WavePrism|talk]]) 15:48, 8 September 2023 (UTC) | |
| ::Understandable. Maybe I'm a bit biased because I've always used the wiki for building gear but, eh, it's less of a complaint and moreso just kind of something I noticed since I'm not going to be able to contribute. {{User:VibeCat/Sig}} 21:58, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
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| ::You can always use sendou.ink for building gear if the wiki doesn't have a page for that weapon. {{User:Eminence/Sig}} 02:13, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
| | == Pretendo == |
| :::It's not the gear... it's how to play it. [[User:WavePrism|Wave]] ([[User talk:WavePrism|talk]]) 16:17, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
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| :As Eminence said, many weapons do not have pages yet, so that's why I'm working on them! If you don't see a competitive page for a weapon, you can make it yourself, or ask me! And by the way, you don't need to be a competitive player! You can watch and observe players using the weapon, or use it yourself, and explain the playstyle you think works best with the weapon. {{User:Splat.dualies/Sig}} 02:55, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
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| == Popular Competitive Players ==
| | Now that Nintendo Network has been discontinued, should we make a page documenting the Splatoon side of Pretendo? They have now released a hackless way of connecting to thier servers and it runs just like Nintendo Network. Thanks, [[User:CodingAsteroid|CodingAsteroid]] ([[User talk:CodingAsteroid|talk]]) 12:07, 13 April 2024 (UTC) |
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| I think there should be a list of popular competitive players for the competitive pages to source. Not full pages, since they would all be stubs, but maybe a list like the [[List of guitarists for the Splatoon series]] list. I first saw a discussion talking about this, [[Competitive talk:ProChara|here]], and I shared my opinion...<small>but since the conversation is old, I don't think it'll be noticed, so i'm bringing it up here</small>. There should be a list for popular competitive players, who are useful enough to be sourced by competitive pages for references. {{User:Randomnamehere/Sig}} 03:53, 8 September 2023 (UTC) | | :As it is not an officially-endorsed service (with some legal dubiousness), I would advise against it: It is not what the developers had intended in an official capacity, and I ''really'' don't want to seem like Inkipedia is supporting or endorsing the product because that could turn around and hurt ''us''. Unless something notable happens like the scheduled rotations not working as anticipated, I think mention of the service at all should be zero to minimal. [[User:Trig Jegman|Trig]] - 13:33, 13 April 2024 (UTC) |
| | ::Ok. Thanks for the feedback! [[User:CodingAsteroid|CodingAsteroid]] ([[User talk:CodingAsteroid|talk]]) 07:12, 17 April 2024 (UTC) |
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| :I'm fine with the idea in general but how many popular competitive players aren't notable enough to hav their own page, how would it be decided as to who belongs on the list/the criteria for being on it, while maintaining neutrality and our appearance as a wiki. Also what information would be on the page about these competitive players? [[User:Freddie|Freddie]] ([[User talk:Freddie|talk]]) 07:05, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
| | == Improving mobile layout for Navbox == |
| ::I feel as if listing these competitive players would be too much for the wiki at the moment, because we would have to maintain said list, and update it consistently. What if one of the players is accused of a heinous crime, would they still be "popular" enough for the page? Instead, I recommend we list the teams, with player names, who have played in competitive. Of course, we'd have to specify what "competitive splatoon" means is (is it Div 3 LUTI players and up, or Div 1?) but that would have to wait until we come to a decision on whether or not to have a player list. Thanks, [[User:Xando|Xando]], [[User talk:Xando|talk]] 12:22, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
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| ::@[[User:Freddie|Freddie]], I was thinking about the 'how does it count to be popular' and I was thinking, maybe a specific ruleset that these players have to meet, like at least 5000 followers or is a credited source for a lot of Competitive pages, and the content they make is actually useful.
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| ::@[[User:Xando|Xando]], I don't think maintainability is that serious, I think the Inkipedia is capable. And when I talk about Competitive Splatoon players, I don't mean players who're in competitive teams, I mean players who make content about Competitive Splatoon... like ProChara; which is referenced in a lot of Competitive weapon pages. {{User:Randomnamehere/Sig}} 14:19, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
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| :::I'm not sure, Inkipedia doesn't seem too capable of working on [[Competitive:Killer Wail 5.1|some of our own pages]] in the competitive namespace already, I see little to no reason to work on yet another project over there that we might not finish for awhile. Also, please specify whether the pages would be talking about competitive players or splatoon content creators, because you mention both. Lastly, if it is about content creators, then Inkipedia is not the space for it. There have already been questions on content creator pages, and the answer was no, because Inkipedia is a space about the Splatoon games, not the creators who play it.
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| :::Regards, [[User:Xando|Xando]], [[User talk:Xando|talk]] 14:36, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
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| ::::@[[User:Xando|Xando]], I'm talking about Splatoon Competitive Content Creators who are referenced on several of these Competitive weapon pages and are used to create the work... but I understand not wanting to work on it because it's too much work already. {{User:Randomnamehere/Sig}} 15:18, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
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| :::::We link their youtube channels. I'm sure these competitive content creators have at least one video talking about themselves, their weapons, playstyle, team and more. Also, you mentioned these pages being used as references for competitive pages... we can't reference our own material for sources, it's straight up unreliable. [[User:Xando|Xando]], [[User talk:Xando|talk]] 15:38, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
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| ::::::@[[User:Xando|Xando]] "we can't reference our own material for sources, it's straight up unreliable." when I said add them to the Inkipedia, I meant something similar to the [[Inkipedia:Twitter archive|Twitter Archive]]. Unless that's unreliable as well. {{User:Randomnamehere/Sig}} 17:07, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
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| :::::Going back to my previous point, what would be on this list and what would its purpose be; you said in your post that you envisioned it as “a list for popular competitive players, who are useful enough to be sourced by competitive pages for references.” Why would we want a stringent list of acceptable sources? Would it require some sort of policy be put in place? And (in my opinion) most importantly, what would the average wiki reader gain from this list? [[User:Freddie|Freddie]] ([[User talk:Freddie|talk]]) 15:51, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
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| ::::::@[[User:Freddie|Freddie]], I already stated that there would most likely require a policy in place, because the Inkipedia can't be flooded with random users. To be more specific, i'm not stating the list should just be users who play Splatoon, i'm basically saying there should be a reference page for these people; because they're usually the ones referenced for Competitive play.
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| ::::::"what would the average wiki reader gain from this list?" What do people gain exactly from pages like [[Rina Itou]] or [[Anna Sato]]. The list would have the same purpose as those pages. {{User:Randomnamehere/Sig}} 17:17, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
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| :::::::People gain background knowledge that is otherwise somewhat hard to find on the internet. However, it a'int that hard to go to (example) Chase247's youtube channel to learn about what weapons he mains (dualies), his playstyle (skirmisher), and his twitter handle (probably in the video descriptions). [[User:Xando|Xando]], [[User talk:Xando|talk]] 17:21, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
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| == Can someone do this for me? Related to a file I uploaded ==
| | The existing Navbox layout is horizontal, due to section headings being placed on the left. This makes them not work very well on mobile devices, which has narrow screens on portrait mode. I am testing a modification to the Navbox layout for mobile view: by moving the section headings to the top of each sections, the layout becomes more mobile-friendly. The desktop layout stays the same as the current one. |
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| Hi! I used to edit under a different name a couple years ago. I don't anymore for various reasons, but I noticed that we didn't have the Splatfest x333 intro animation. SO I found it online and uploaded it. You can find it on my list of edits. Since I can't edit the Splatfest page, can someone add it for me? I'm abandoning this account after I make this post so I won't be replying. Thanks so much! [[User:Thecityofredness|Thecityofredness]] ([[User talk:Thecityofredness|talk]]) 11:14, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
| | You can preview this on [[User:Harimaron/Sandbox#Navbox]]. The mobile layout will only activate if the viewport is narrow enough, so you can test it by viewing it on mobile or by reducing the width of your web browser window. I would appreciate any comments. [[User:Harimaron|Harimaron]] ([[User talk:Harimaron|talk]]) 16:41, 14 April 2024 (UTC) |
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| == Is there a way to change the way Inkipedia is accessed? ==
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| What if, and I'm just spitballing here, we made a free Inkipedia app? It might not serve much extra purpose, but wouldn't it be possible? We could even change the way it is built to better suit phones. Editors and people of power could even have different views of the app. I'm not sure it would work or if its worth the effort, but it could change something. We could even ask for donations (as Wikipedia does) to fund the app so it can be free. Once again, not sure but it might work.
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| [[User:NewSquidbeakSplatoon|NewSquidbeakSplatoon]] ([[User talk:NewSquidbeakSplatoon|talk]]) 20:48, 14 September 2023 (UTC)[[User:NewSquidbeakSplatoon|NewSquidbeakSplatoon]] ([[User talk:NewSquidbeakSplatoon|talk]]) 20:47, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
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| :I absolutely love this idea, I just don't know who could do it? I wish that I knew how to make an app. [[User:WavePrism|Wave]] ([[User talk:WavePrism|talk]]) 04:22, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
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| ::It would be *exceedingly* difficult to implement. Given the nature of wikis constantly updating, it doesn't really work well with an app structure of layout. It would also be out of date any time it is accessed without an internet connection, and in order to not be a massive download, would probably not be able to display much content. It's a fun idea, but not a terribly practical one. I would also say that we really don't have the development team required to create and maintain something like that, which would make it more difficult to try and implement. [[User:Trig Jegman|Trig]] - 07:10, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
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| :::I guess that is sensible. Some things don't really need apps I guess. It was just a little idea that popped into my head. [[User:NewSquidbeakSplatoon|NewSquidbeakSplatoon]] ([[User talk:NewSquidbeakSplatoon|talk]]) 13:49, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
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| == Adding a Tableturf Battle strategy category ==
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| Hello everyone, We from the Tableturf Battle community have an idea about having a wiki for explaining Tableturf Battle cards in a competitive setting. This would look similar to the current [[:Category:Weapon strategy]] category, where every card would have its own page where their strengths and weaknesses can be discussed in detail. We know this would be quite a big project, but many of us are very passionate about Tableturf, so I think it wouldn't take too long to make detailed pages for every card.
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| <nowiki>I think this could help many low and mid level Tableturf players understand the metagame better, hopefully getting more players into the community. What does the Inkipedia community think about this suggestion? <span data-dtsignatureforswitching="1"></span></nowiki> [[User:Ljovynn|Ljovynn]] ([[User talk:Ljovynn|talk]]) 18:40, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
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| :I think you should start drafting a few pages, to demonstrate whether or not it's a viable article idea. Are you sure there needs to be a page for every card, as opposed to just one page containing all the content? [[User:Heddy|Heddy]] ([[User talk:Heddy|talk]]) 07:09, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
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| ::Okay, we will start drafting some pages! One page containing all the content would probably be way too large though. [[User:Ljovynn|Ljovynn]] ([[User talk:Ljovynn|talk]]) 11:12, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
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| :I think that it would be more viable to develop an index of some type of cards, organizing the number/size/type of cards and their shape, rather than creating a new page for each card yet. Maybe there's more competitive Tableturf battlers out there than I though, but I'm not sure how much is warranted. [[User:WavePrism|Wave]] ([[User talk:WavePrism|talk]]) 16:59, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
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| ::I'm also unsure about the viability of one page per card, but a draft can give the community the time and example necessary to judge the viability of the one-card-per-page organization method. A draft would attract editors other than Ljovynn to contribute to the project. A page in competitive space that lists all cards could be created in addition to the individual card pages; the list page would be a starting point for readers and a hub for readers to go back when choosing a card to learn about next. [[User:Heddy|Heddy]] ([[User talk:Heddy|talk]]) 19:27, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
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| :::The project Ljovynn is talking about now has a dedicated thread on the main Tableturf competitive discord. We're wondering where you would like us to set up the draft. Would a Temporary spot in [[:Category:Weapon strategy]] be ok? [[User:SirNerdbird|SirNerdbird]] ([[User talk:SirNerdbird|talk]]) 18:01, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
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| ::::On this wiki, we generally create drafts in our user space, meaning pages like User:SirNerdbird/Draft or User:SirNerdbird/Tableturf. [[User:Heddy|Heddy]] ([[User talk:Heddy|talk]]) 22:19, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
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| :::::Cool, thanks [[User:SirNerdbird|SirNerdbird]] ([[User talk:SirNerdbird|talk]]) 23:05, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
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| ::::::Yay, glad to see that Tableturf is appreciated. I didn't realize that there was a competitive Discord, and that makes me happy. ^-^ [[User:WavePrism|Wave]] ([[User talk:WavePrism|talk]]) 02:30, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
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| == About Grizzco Weapons ==
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| “They appear to be ''illegally'' modified…”
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| I think that phrase is useless, because who has any grasp of what is legal or illegal? Is that perhaps a quote from the official twitter or something? Otherwise I think it's unnecessary, as it portrays something speculated rather than factual.
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| Unless I'm missing something, which could be likely. [[User:Wind Waker|Wind Waker]] [[File:Link.jpg|20px]] [[File:S2 Weapon Main Hero Shot Lv. 3.png|20px]] ([[User talk:Wind Waker|talk]]) 20:54, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
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| :It is mentioned under [https://www.nintendo.co.jp/character/splatoon/en/character/#modal_character-23 Mr. Grizz' profile in Splatoon Base] for example. {{User:Perfectionist/Sig}} 21:55, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
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| ::According to that link, the weapons are "illegitimately modified", not "illegally modified". If there are other sources that say this, do all sources use the consistently same wording? If they all say "illegitimately", we should correct the wiki to say that, because while both words can potentially mean the same thing, "illegitimately" is a less-severe word because it can refer to informal rules or culture or traditions, whereas "illegally" refers only to actual law.
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| ::Either way, the quote is necessary. It's officially part of the lore, and not speculation.
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| ::Here's my speculation which anyone is free to ignore: the fact that Grizzco Industries continues operating, with those weapons handed out to employees quite often, shows that the weapons are most likely legal under Splatoon government law (serious in-universe laws, not silly game-related in-universe laws), but banned under ink battle law, as it's likely that only pre-approved weapon models can be used in a Turf War or Ranked Battle. Grizzco is work, not a game, so there is no such restriction under Grizzco and no one can arrest anyone for using Grizzco's company property to do their job, as long as the company property doesn't leave the Grizzco work environment. If a police officer asked Grizzco about the weapons, Grizzco would just say "yeah we modified some weapons to convert them into egg harvesting equipment and employee safety equipment, inspect them all you want" and nothing bad would happen to Grizzco. [[User:Heddy|Heddy]] ([[User talk:Heddy|talk]]) 19:32, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
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| :::That sounds just a bit like speculation, but it still makes sense. On the Splatoon Base website, I'm wondering if the difference between "illegally" and "illegitimately" could be chalked up to a mistranslation. Then again, with the new translation of the website or whatnot, "illegitimately" could be the correct translation.
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| :::I don't know, I'm not a translator. [[User:WavePrism|Wave]] ([[User talk:WavePrism|talk]]) 02:29, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
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| :::I think your speculation is well-founded. I've thought the same tbh [[User:Wind Waker|Wind Waker]] [[File:Link.jpg|20px]] [[File:S2 Weapon Main Hero Shot Lv. 3.png|20px]] ([[User talk:Wind Waker|talk]]) 21:12, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
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| ::I see [[User:Wind Waker|Wind Waker]] [[File:Link.jpg|20px]] [[File:S2 Weapon Main Hero Shot Lv. 3.png|20px]] ([[User talk:Wind Waker|talk]]) 21:13, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
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| :Most likely they ARE illegally modified. [[User:Splatfest Maniac|Splatfest Maniac]] ([[User talk:Splatfest Maniac|talk]]) 18:56, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
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| ::Most likely, yes, but it's irrelevant to if it is or isn't. Speaking of which, can we get somebody to retranslate it? It's been bugging me in the back of my mind. [[User:WavePrism|Wave]] ([[User talk:WavePrism|talk]]) 01:52, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
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| ::We want absolute facts tho, not "most likely"s
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| ::I'm not trying to sound harsh btw, sorry if it comes off that way :/ [[User:Wind Waker|Wind Waker]] [[File:Link.jpg|20px]] [[File:S2 Weapon Main Hero Shot Lv. 3.png|20px]] ([[User talk:Wind Waker|talk]]) 02:12, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
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| :::Exactly. ^-^ [[User:WavePrism|Wave]] ([[User talk:WavePrism|talk]]) 02:19, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
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| ==Halloween logo theme==
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| Now that it's October, I think we should change the logo to something like this: [[File:Inkipedia Logo 2022 - Halloween.svg|50px]] since Halloween is right around the corner. What do you think? {{User:Splatunie/Sig}} 00:00, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
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| :I went ahead and updated the site logo, it should become visible as soon as the website's cache is updated. Enjoy your Spooky Month! [[User:Heddy|Heddy]] ([[User talk:Heddy|talk]]) 01:20, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
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| ::When does the cache update? [[User:WavePrism|Wave]] ([[User talk:WavePrism|talk]]) 03:51, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
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| :::The cache has already updated on Inkipedia's end. If you are not seeing it, then you need to clear the old cache on your end, by restarting your web browser, or by manually clearing the cache with Ctrl+F5, or by clearing data in the web browser settings menu. [[User:Heddy|Heddy]] ([[User talk:Heddy|talk]]) 04:02, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
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| ::I think It's a great Idea [[User:Splatfest Maniac|Splatfest Maniac]] ([[User talk:Splatfest Maniac|talk]]) 18:34, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
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| :Good idea. [[User:WavePrism|Wave]] ([[User talk:WavePrism|talk]]) 03:52, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
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| == Ink Pump Project Page ==
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| I just noticed that if you go to the top of the Ink Pump and click on the "Project page" section, it just redirects you back the the current, selected section "Discussion". Is this intentional, or a bug? [[User:WavePrism|Wave]] ([[User talk:WavePrism|talk]]) 04:06, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
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| :Edit: I realized that I didn't communicate all of what I was trying to say. Is there a separate projects page or something that has been removed? I remember one, especially because of Trig's Project Cleanup. [[User:WavePrism|Wave]] ([[User talk:WavePrism|talk]]) 04:07, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
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| ::This is intentional. Somewhat unclearly, the "Inkipedia:" namespace is technically called the project namespace. My project is just called that because it needed a name. The point of Ink Pump is to be a discussion setting, so only a discussion page is really needed. That said, it helps navigation to have the main page redirect to this one. [[User:Trig Jegman|Trig]] - 09:28, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
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| :::Got it, thanks! [[User:WavePrism|Wave]] ([[User talk:WavePrism|talk]]) 14:48, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
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| == Why is there no guide to create a page? ==
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| I do not understand how to create a page like my user page and I've realized that there is no guide to teach you how to make an edit pages. [[User:Onion the Octoling|Onion the Octoling]] ([[User talk:Onion the Octoling|talk]]) 19:15, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
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| :Creating a page broadly falls under more general MediaWiki knowledge which I think is why we don't have a dedicated help page for it (as opposed to say, tables, where we have cosmetic options unique to our wiki that people might want to know about), but you can find info on creating a page [[mediawikiwiki:Help:Starting a new page|here]]. I've also just added it to the [[Help:Contents]] page, because I had to manually search it out myself not too long ago also and I agree that it probably should not be like that. Haha [[User:Driftin Soul|Driftin Soul]] ([[User talk:Driftin Soul|talk]]) 19:34, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
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11:02, 6 February 2024 (UTC)
(Talk) 16:48, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
Squidcat (talk) 13:53, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
