Inkipedia:Proposals/Failed/Audio Use Policy

This is a policy proposal.

The policy has not been approved yet.

It would behoove you to read the full policy draft here and prior conversations on the subject here.

This proposal seeks to end the very, very long discussion about audio use on Inkipedia. The highlights of the proposal are as follows:

• Do not host the OST in its complete entirety, only using up to 30 seconds for samples for music and audio.
• Audio must be taken directly from the game and not other sources like YouTube or Splatune.
• New audio must be in the MP3 format under specific quality guidelines (128kbps).
• Audio files must have accompanying text to see use.
• Files not meeting the policy (including old, non-truncated versions of files) will be deleted.

Thank you for your time. Trig - 15:11, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

Start date: 23 December 2023

End date: 13 January 2024

Support

1. Been in favor of this since it was first being discussed, full support. Anemoia [Talk!] 15:13, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
2. Urgent support. The current careless anything-goes attitude with music uploads, to the point several regular editors have described relying on the wiki to download the OST for personal use rather than accessing it on-site as encyclopedic material, is a DMCA takedown waiting to happen. Other NIWA wikis notably have received DMCA takedowns from Nintendo within recent memory; please see Mario Wiki's audio policy in particular to compare how seriously other large independent wikis consider this issue. It is overall unprofessional and not wiki-like to allow full unaltered uploads of specifically audio and music, especially when it comes to files we directly know to suffer strict takedowns from the copyright holders on a regular basis on other platforms. What will happen if we do receive music takedown requests? Is that going to be the wake-up call to how urgently we need this policy in place? With this policy we have the option of instating preventative measures to ensure the wiki is legally in the clear with regards to copyrighted music. Yoshifan52 (talk) 21:12, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

   I don't think this is urgent. Everyone should take their time to vote and discuss. The audio has been like this for years, and even if we received a cease and desist request from Nintendo, we would easily be able to comply with their request by deleting the audio. The fact remains that we have not received any such request from Nintendo, therefore there is no urgency. Heddy (talk) 08:13, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

3. I have read many articles about Nintendo taking down YouTube videos of their music. The way that we currently have music on Inkipedia makes it even easier to download than from YouTube videos. I think if Nintendo found out about their music being here, they would definitely want it removed. I think that they are more likely to be ok with 30 second versions. I also think that it is much better to have all the files as MP3s, since they are supported by most devices.  GX_64 (talk)  23:12, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
4. I agree with almost everything in this policy proposal. We can't risk the wiki of being DMCA'ed even if it's not a major risk. Although I do agree that the audio should be reduced to 30 seconds max and that Youtube should not be used, I disagree with the prohibited use of Splatune, with the reason being stated by other users below. Sure, the songs may be slightly different from the in-game version, but I don't see a problem since it's very subtle. Said this once, I'll say it again. Inkipedia is not a music or audio site. It is an informational wiki. If you want to listen to Splatoon music, Youtube and other sites are always an option. OrderSquid38 [Talk] 08:29, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
5. I stand by my previous comments of agreeing with almost all of this proposal for reasons of copyright, fair use, and what-have-you, but I do second Heddy's point below - I see no reason why we shouldn't allow Splatune or other OSTs as music sources. If that was changed, it would have my 100% approval, but right now I'm still happy to support it as it is. GloverMist (talk) 15:11, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
6. Support, there's just no need to takes risks. Nintendo is not our friend and just because they haven't taken action yet doesn't mean it is safe to believe they never will. - Harristic (talk) 16:15, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

1. My stance has not changed. Slate Talk Contribs 15:46, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
2. My opinion still stands as strong as ever. It's not changing. NewSquidbeakSplatoon (talk)
3. I still stand by most of the points I made in the previous proposal on this topic. I would also like to add that a lot of the pages for the OST, especially for Splatoon 3, are stubs/extremely short. Unless there are people who will be committed to not only creating the new audio files, but also expanding these pages, I find this to overall be a negative change for the wiki. kris(talk) 16:00, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
4. My stance still is not changing. P.J. GT(talk) 22:26, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
5. While I generally agree, I disagree with this part: "Audio must be taken directly from the game and not other sources like YouTube or Splatune." Splatune and other official OST releases are a valid source for audio, along with the game, as these are all high-quality sources. I do agree that YouTube should not be used as a source, as YouTube compresses the audio heavily. Since the final result will be 128 kbps MP3 we should ideally start with a non-compressed format (such as OST CD FLAC or other lossless format rip) to avoid a lossy-to-lossy transcode, so it's important that people are allowed to use official OST releases as a source. Everything else in this policy, I agree with, as I stated in my comment on the last proposal page. Heddy (talk) 07:55, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

Neutral

1. as per my original proposal which this is a result of i support the changes such as mp3 and 128kbps. however some songs/ audios can defo be allowed more than 30 seconds- not all of them, especially not newer songs, but seriously what is gonna happen for a full length "ink me up" lol. i think as a wiki, a source of online information cumulated into one site, we should strive to add as much information as possible while staying professional when needed. I think audio truncation should be a case-by-case basis although your safe approach is understandable. thanks for reading. User:Sol

Discussion

Why disallow official Splatune OST as a source? This seems like an overstep. I don't think there was any discussion regarding removing that as an allowable source. Some audio is only going to be sourceable from official OSTs, and official OST CDs are sometimes the easiest way to get a lossless version of the audio to start with. It's important to start from a lossless audio source before compressing to the 30-second 128 kbps MP3, and I see no reason to restrict official OST CDs from being one of the possible sources. Heddy (talk) 08:04, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

Furthermore, what if Nintendo releases music exclusively to other non-game formats, like official websites, or versions only found in live performances, or even exclusively on youtube? The more I think about it, the more the "Audio must be taken directly from the game and not other sources" rule seems like an overstep. We are supposed to cover all things Splatoon, not just the game, and therefore not just audio from the game. Heddy (talk) 08:23, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

Honestly, not sure why, it would be better to use Splatune files because that guarantees a real and legitimate audio file from the devs officially, YouTube makes sense, but not Splatune. It would be better to use official music files than go through the game, in my opinion though. Could be wrong and just don’t understand the reasoning, just saying. NewSquidbeakSplatoon (talk)

Trig explicitly brought up an earlier draft of this proposal for discussion last week in the Discord asking for input; within the same day after brief feedback, they added the mention of Splatune rips being considered not allowed, which was not contested for days. I'm of the opinion commercial CD rips are slightly dodgier than in-game music and all precautions should be exercised, but I'm not adamant on this; my vote would not change if this element was removed from the draft. Yoshifan52 (talk) 09:36, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

There is nothing dodgy about Splatune, it's an official source, a CD that Nintendo published. Ripping audio from a CD is equally valid as ripping audio from a game (or MORE valid, since CDs have track metadata). And I believe it's likely that Nintendo has released or will release songs or versions of songs that are OST-exclusive (someone more knowledgeable may be able to speak about this). Splatune is literally the official OST of the game, I can't believe I'm having to explain why it shouldn't be banned as a source. It might be good to have a rule about noting the source when uploading audio, as people have consistently failed to provide a source for audio uploads, but the rule shouldn't go further than requiring that the source is named. YouTube is harder to defend as a source but the possibility of exclusives make me think all sources should be allowed. Heddy (talk) 12:58, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

I'm guessing that the issue with soundtracks like Splatune is that they are published by Kadokawa, so there is another company along with Nintendo that could potentially want the files taken down. I assumed that the part about YouTube is referring to unofficial videos, since it says "like YouTube or SoundCloud", and everything on SoundCloud is unofficial. I agree that there might be situations where audio from YouTube, or other websites, might be necessary.  GX_64 (talk)  13:48, 24 December 2023 (UTC)