Inkipedia talk:Ink Pump

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The Ink Pump

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Page or information about Agent 8's appearance changing as you pick up color chips?

I and others have noticed that as you pick up more color chips of the same type, 8 and her weapon's appearances change. Am I just stupid and can't find the page for it or should we make a page or section about this? Bamboo52 (talk) 21:40, 9 January 2025 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Color Chip#Effects on Agent 8's ink color contains info on how color chips change Eight's ink color, but I also am not finding info on how the design changes. I believe I recall there being an effort on the Discord to catalog the effect that you are talking about (using the "Spire Clear" screen in order to keep a consistent pose and angle), but I'm not sure what became of that. underFlorence (talk | contribs) 01:04, 10 January 2025 (UTC)Reply[reply]
this is just theroy but mabye the color chips change agent 8's ink color because its a glitch in the system??? Remember,this is basicly the matrix movie bu splatoon and playable! Jadeaxolotlgirl (talk) 05:13, 8 February 2025 (UTC)Reply[reply]

External information in album tracklists

This was brought on by an edit by @Petal Mail that added in-game artist credits to Splatoon Live in Makuhari -Shiokalive-, but I think this is to do with a more general point on how we represent music in general and albums in particular.

Generally speaking, album tracklists are torn in two distinct directions:

1) They often serve as the most definitive and comprehensive listing of a game's soundtrack, as the Music subpages currently don't contain real-life composer information, and most articles on individual tracks currently don't contain that information, either. As such, I assume many people (including myself) see the big album pages like Ordertune as the primary comprehensive resource for accumulated music.

2) Many albums have quirks with how they organize their tracklists or display credits. Stuff like Ordertune only crediting real-life artists to in-game artists, so any one of five artists could've written any given Free Association song, Splatoon 2 OST Selection containing no credits whatsoever, or Splatoon Live in Makuhari -Shiokalive- not crediting any in-game artists (to my knowledge). And ideally, those quirks should be represented in the pages, and in my opinion not just as a note, but by having the tracklist accurately reflect the information contained in the album. Particularly, trying to fill in those quirks, like the in-game artists in Splatoon Live in Makuhari -Shiokalive-, can quickly get conjectural when it comes to instances like the "MC" tracks vs. the characters' sound effects, or concert tracks in general, which rely on other albums' precedence.

With that in mind, my suggestion would be threefold:

1) Expand on the Music subpages to serve as a more comprehensive resource on a game's soundtrack, so they can be on par with the core album tracklists. This would largely consist of adding real-life composer information, plus potentially more.

2) Keep album tracklist info to only the info included in an album, except in cases where that information would be wrong (i.e. a misprint) or misleading (i.e. the Ordertune tracks that have vague credits in the album, but have a clearly defined composer as seen in the music sheets of the Behind the Scenes videos). Even then, keep a note explaining what the original content was.

3) A stronger push to include real-life artist information on individual track articles' infoboxes. I have been doing some assorted work on those, but ran into a roadblock when it came to the divide between composer and arranger. While for original tracks, the idea would be that the same person is doing both, for cases of remixed songs, like Calamari Inkantation 3MIX, we have no way of knowing if the original composer also helped arrange the new song, and whether the new artist was only doing arranging work, or also composed new section (and then also: how much new content would an arrangement have to have to consider this?). To my knowledge, arrangement credits are given very rarely in these albums, largely only for the live versions of songs, as far as I can tell. As such, in order to make the process of entering credits into the infoboxes clearer, I would suggest a "Music by" (which is the credit that most albums seem to use for composer and/or arranger) field to be added to the music infoboxes, and for that field to be used unless we have explicit confirmation of who handled composition and/or arrangement (i.e. via an interview). This would also might make things clearer for Ordertune, which seems to have foregone crediting the original composer for remixes entirely (i.e. Inkopolis Punch being a remix of Battle Victory, but not crediting Toru Minegishi whatsoever). By abandoning the producer/composer/arranger divide unless specified and abiding by the credits where possible, I believe that adding information to the infoboxes will be made much easier, and I would also volunteer my help in getting that information added. underFlorence (talk | contribs) 15:45, 12 January 2025 (UTC)Reply[reply]

These are very sound propositions. It's a strong case of now that you've pointed it out, all these issues stick out a lot now, looking over those pages again.
The album pages should definitely prioritize the credits their booklets provide, and revamping the music subpages to be a better "home base" for general information per track in one place would be best. For individual infoboxes (or anywhere else it may pop up), "music by" seems like the perfect catch-all if nothing more specific has been confirmed. Yoshifan52 (talk) 04:40, 16 January 2025 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Real life template usefulness

This topic of the real life notice template's scope came up in the Discord chat: Gaming32 pointed out certain articles such as Splatoon 3 ought to have the notice, which sparked debate as to where the line is drawn between "real life" and "in-universe" differentiation.

I'm in agreement that real life product articles such as Splatoon 3 would qualify to have the notice, but the more I thought of it, started to think there's a boiling point after which we are disclaiming the obvious about something the reader could reasonably intuit immediately as they start to read, or even already know before reading our article. It's typically very clear from the first few lines of an article, and there are ~200 pages to which this template has been applied, with even more article candidates should we widen its scope.

The concept of discerning between "real life" (developers, artists, products, merchandise) and "in-universe" (characters, locations, mechanics, "lore") topics across the wiki is helpful, but it's already achieved by sorting into the related categories. The concept of disclaiming topics as clear-cut "real world only" is additionally somewhat muddied by certain promotional content "crossing over" with real-life brands or such that are per the storyline extinct/nonexistant/impossible in the Splatoon world, but are directly mentioned by the in-universe characters as if they're "canon". I bring this up not with the concept of canonicity in mind, but rather whether or not a page like our idol concert article would technically necessitate a "real world" notice; it's obvious from the article's lead section the topic concerns a real life event that still holds some degree of direct connection to the in-universe continuity.

I'm of the opinion we should do away with the real life notice and instead focus on related categorization, as the distinction exists mostly for wiki navigation; readers should be able to tell what is or isn't a real life product, person etc. from the opening paragraph. Organization tools like the games category should be placed within the real life topics category, without the need for a "note: this game exists in real life!" message on game pages. Yoshifan52 (talk) 08:00, 18 January 2025 (UTC)Reply[reply]

A point that was brought up by a user in the Discord discussion was that this user felt a high number of our pages currently using the notice would be significantly dampened by its removal because of them being insufficiently constructed so as to obviously be about a real-life subject at a glance. While I haven't gone over the list of these pages with a fine-toothed comb to verify this grievance (as Yoshifan has said, there are minimum a couple hundred articles), I don't believe we should be relying on a notice template as a band-aid solution to articles being poorly constructed. Even if the notice is not retired immediately because it is believed that it is currently acting as this band-aid solution, I do believe we need to act to overhaul any articles deemed problematic with the ultimate goal of removing this template. Driftin Soul [Talk!] 08:17, 18 January 2025 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yeah, I agree that notices should not convey information that should be in the article in the first place, so the focus should be on cleaning up those articles (though it'll likely be no small undertaking). Ideally we'd get cleanup fully done and then get to removing the template. underFlorence (talk | contribs) 18:54, 18 January 2025 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I like the usage of the real life template but I would exclusively use it on pages where there is an in-game equivalent or a similar concept. For example characters vs real people, bands, companies, teams, events, etc.
I don't think it's that necessary and a bit redundant for stuff that doesn't have an equivalent in-game as I don't think there is as much confusion and specifying it on the first paragraph would be enough imo. It's moon [Talk!] 19:10, 19 January 2025 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Unnecessary (and secretively motivated) “nonbinarization” of characters and living people

Hello to you all. Sorry for the bother.

I'm quite confused about some recent edits made to the pages of Chirpy Chips (specifically Sid's section), Diss-Pair (in regards to Mashup), and the manga section of the newest version of the image guidelines policy when referring to the writer and illustrator Sankichi Hinodeya.

I've noticed Sid and Mashup's description sections being edited with the substitution of their listed gender from "male" to "unspecified" and their pronouns being changed to "they/them" with the given explanation in a note telling that the original pronouns used for the two in Japanese material are "not exclusively male"; furthermore, the "fan translation" pages provided by user Rassicas have been taken out of their gallery pages with the motivation being listed as "per policy". This has raised a couple doubts and questions to me.

  1. According to the user (not calling their username out since this is not an attack on them personally) who edited the information regarding Sid and Mashup, both characters utilize the pronoun 俺 ore when referring to themselves; while it's true that any personal pronoun in Japanese, including ore, is not as strictly linked to gender as in (pre-2016) Western languages, this specific pronoun is almost always used by males, both in reality and fiction, as it conveys a strong sense of masculinity than other more "neutral" pronouns such as ぼくboku (used by both "confirmed male" Big Man and ambiguously-gendered-in-English Acht, just to provide cases from the franchise) and 私 watashi. Their pretty-much-male physical appearances and names also don't help, making the thought about their identities being "fluid" a wee bit far-fetched in my opinion, especially since the introduction of more willingly ambiguously coded characters such as Orion, Acht, Kiki and the other members of Riot Act.
  2. If we went for completely unequating pronouns to gender, as some Western people do, then we should do the same with all characters regardless of pronouns used and devoiding their profiles of the "gender" parameter entirely; since we follow a convention that most parts of the world stands for (eg. "he/him"= male or "ore"= male), then any character who uses pronouns strongly associated with a gender, both in Japanese and in English, are to be assumed as such.
  3. The same user listed BancalaWalker as a source, even though this cannot be proven unless the scans containing said dialogue is posted on Inkipedia; there is no actual link to those pages in Japanese provided in the notes.
  4. In both cases, their gender being male was sourced by the translations Rassicas provided, which are present on the wiki and thus assumed to be reliable; if they really were to be held as "unofficial" and thus "not canon", then so should be Karla's gender, which is still listed as female with the same BancalaWalker translations as the only basis, and most of the info regarding band characters, for whom we do not have any in-game profiles that confirm in English what is said about them in Japanese. Other characters, such as the ones I previously mentioned, have their pronouns translated as "they", "them" and "theirs" by the same author, implying that Sid and Mashup are 90% intended to be males. Worth noting is that Rassicas themselves identify as non-binary according to all their social media profiles, thus "correcting" their work or implying they're "inaccurate" in regards of gender topics honestly baffles me. If anything, their different stance on, say, Orion and Sid, shows professionality from their part, with no bias to "take" all characters to their own "side", as people on the internet still do, for example, when making headcanons about characters such as Shiver, whose gender-related issue was cleared at launch. As much as people of this kind are free to express their own interpretations of the characters, a wiki environment would not be the ideal place to do that.

Side note: I am honestly disappointed with a staff member reverting my edit on Chirpy Chips' Clash, basically assuming bad faith on my side, despite the next editor proving me right. When reverting my edit, said staff member provided "a discussion on the Discord server" as a motivation, which I find concerning (just as much as using a non-indexed platform to discuss a public wiki's etiquette…). If said issue is of concern, as any other, why not do it publicly on the Ink Pump we have here? It would be accessible to any wiki user, even those who do not wish to join the Discord server for privacy or any other reason, and be moderated in order to avoid conflicts that are way more likely to happen in a private location.

In the case of using the pronouns "they" and "their" regarding Sankichi Hinodeya, despite feminine pronouns being used on her page, I personally think it was a mistake instead. If not, however, then we should make our stance on gender of living people consistent and use the same pronouns in all text regarding Hinodeya.

Please understand this is not a tirade on anyone, nor a complaint; I do not mean to disrespect any person "involved". Just wanted to have my part. Thank you and sorry again. Hope you can understand my point of view. Spleet (talk) 18:28, 20 January 2025 (UTC)Reply[reply]

To start off: no one is attempting to "non-binarize" any characters. As a wiki, we have never once claimed any characters, even those who explicitly use they/them pronouns in English, as "non-binary". We use "unspecified" and they/them pronouns to indicate a person of ambiguous or unknown gender, and provide info about any further details (such as Japanese first-person pronoun use) so readers can come to their own conclusion.
Context is key in discussions such as these, and generally we value the use of Japanese third-person pronouns more heavily than first-person (the equivalent to ex. English "he" or "she"). As another example, Frye in Japanese uses a first-person pronoun commonly associated with more elderly men, but because of further context such as gendered third-person pronouns and lore details explaining said pronoun use we have of course not proclaimed her as male or of unknown gender. This is also why Clash is listed as male (he is referred to with 彼 (kare, "he"), but Sid is not. Rassicas was involved firsthand with the discussion in the Discord, and although they agreed on a personal level that they felt it was unlikely Nintendo explicitly intended the genders of some of these characters to be ambiguous (and reflected as such in some of their own translations), that the ambiguity is definitely still there for some. It would be editorially irresponsible for us to deliberately state or imply otherwise; again, we prefer to lay out the known information and let our readers go from there.
On another note, I think you are being somewhat uncharitable to assume that a staff member reverting your edit is "assuming bad faith". Staff members make mistakes like anyone else; there were a lot of characters being changed, and it was a simple error by the original editor that was misinterpreted. No need to jump straight to assuming your character is being attacked. For another thing: the fan translation artbook pages have been removed from mainspace pages due to copyright concerns; these sorts of edited pages are to be used only in the onsite Twitter archive. This is not a new decision being made just for this situation and is not at all related to them being deemed as containing 'incorrect' pronouns.
Lastly, about Hinodeya Sankichi, I believe it was indeed just a simple mistake. Again, nobody's intent here is to "non-binarize". I've fixed the relevant block of text. Driftin Soul [Talk!] 19:41, 20 January 2025 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you for clarifying on the topic. Please don't always be so rude on me though- since I am (willingly) not on the Discord server, I may not know things most of you do (I don't know if anyone will agree with me, but I still stand clear on my wish for the forum to be public). Of course the word "nonbinarization" was not meant to be literal, more like a neologism I probably crafted out myself to call a whole concept in a topic title. x) Also forgive my "uncharitableness", I just tend to be very strict on my personal sense of wiki-correctness. Be of course mindful that I do not intend to attack who I presume to have "assumed bad faith" in my edits, rather it's me who feels "threatened" (justly, I'd say, as a non-staff user). I know wiki admins can be very hard on people who seemingly ignore rules, and I wanted to make clear that I was not acting out of bad faith. Spleet (talk) 21:26, 20 January 2025 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I don't believe I've been rude. I understand your concern about discussions having occurred behind what may seem to be 'closed doors', and this is why I have specifically attempted to clarify the contents of these discussions in my reply without being brusque.
I also found it very difficult to perceive your choice of the phrase "nonbinarize" as non-charged or clinical when you included such phrases as "gender [...] in (pre-2016) Western languages", "the thought about their identities being 'fluid'", and "'tak[ing]' all characters to their own 'side'", which is why I felt the need to make it quite clear that none of these phenomena are occurring. Driftin Soul [Talk!] 21:55, 20 January 2025 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Probably I've been too involved in serious Splatoon drama. I've seen too much people being highly toxic and polarizing in regards of their perceptions of the characters, so I admit a fear of mine is it happening on this wiki (you can't imagine how many times I've seen people reiterate their own mandela effects as "canon" and calling who disagrees, even politely, names- you know, the whole “-ist” and “-phobe” discourse). The 2016 thing was to point accuracy (I would only be a fool to say that, as of now, pronouns always equate gender, as it is no longer the case in English) and make a comparison to the Japanese pronouns using what would be a "stricter" system, but noting that it's actually not the case anymore. Don't assume my words are hate-filled- bear in mind that I am from an entirely different language and culture than American and I can't always manage to successfully translate my thoughts, especially on such delicate topics, to English. That would be assuming "bad faith" as well lol Spleet (talk) 22:29, 20 January 2025 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It's weird that you're implying sourcing as an issue here when the change of Sid's gender (and I assume Mashup's, too, though that would've been much longer ago - at the very least there's no particular sourcing or explanation on the Diss-Pair page at the time I was editing it) from Unspecified to Male originally happened without any actual sourcing back when BancalaWalker came out. Ideally I would've liked to reference particular pages for the Chirpy Chips livestream, but I could only find mention of the livestream when this was discussed in, and don't own the book, so I went with this as a stopgap measure while asking for a more precise source. This sourcing is still more than what was on the page previously, so really the bigger issue is that we had the gender changed for over a month now without any given source in the first place. As soon as someone who owns the book can give an exact page source, it'll be added to make it complete, but currently I believe it's better than nothing.
Regarding pronouns != gender, to my knowledge it's a much more common thing (though still unusal) to use "unfitting" first-person pronouns - see what Driftin Soul pointed out about Frye in Japanese, whereas there is no current case of a character using English third-person pronouns that are incongruous with their gender.
To give some context on how this all even happened, I went into this with the intent of wanting to source Mashup's gender to particular pages in HaikaraWalker/BancalaWalker, since this was unsourced previously and I've generally been doing a ton of cleanup. If you go back even a few revisions, you see an edit where I added a ref to Mashup's gender as male, which has not been noted as such previously. However, in the process of finding these refs, a discussion came up about the implications of first-person pronouns on gender. I did not go into this wanting a "policy change" to happen. Also, to be frank, I don't think any of this was much policy to begin with, given that people were just changing genders without any attributions at first, so I would chalk it up moreso under "in-game band pages are generally not as big of a priority for most wiki users, so unsourced edits are more likely to go through," to be quite honest, than any particular policy for how gender should be handled.
I find it frankly a slight bit unfair to assume bad faith on the staff member's part in reverting my edit, but then not even check my contributions to see what I was doing with the pages and assume I was engaging in "nonbinarization." If I was really engaged in "nonbinarization," why would I first perform edits that more conclusively provided a source for Mashup's gender as Male? In fact, I was the same editor that later reverted the staff member's edit that reverted your edit, because obviously it was done in error.
In any case, in the process of asking for the specific evidence for their gender, there was a discussion with rassicas about this all, and the conclusion was that while they almost certainly intended for those pronouns to signify gender, it's something that's ultimately still conjectural. It's something that I find a bit silly at times, too, and in my personal view I also still think that Mashup's almost certainly intended to be male, but part of being a Wiki is keeping conjecture to a minimum. It's the same kinda policy as when pre-Ordertune, track names such as Fest Zest (Grand Festival) didn't link to "The Grand Festival Version of Fest Zest", because even though to me and most everyone else they're obviously the same thing, it wasn't confirmed until the OST came out and confirmed that they were the same song. It's a bit silly, it doesn't have to influence how most fans see things, but it's avoiding conjecture at the end of the day. It's the difference between making a faithful localization and a being a wiki, at the end of the day.
Regarding the scans: Driftin Soul talked about the copyright concerns, but there's also a bit of INK:IM that's relevant here:
"User-generated images uploaded for this purpose should be categorized as internet archive files. Tweets archived in this way are expected to be wiki relevant, but do note that their inclusion in our archive does not automatically mean their related files must be used elsewhere across the wiki. For example, if an informative user-generated Tweet being used as a citation contains a Marie meme image, that image should be uploaded then added to our Twitter archive, but it should not be added to Marie's gallery page or anywhere else on the wiki."
While these translated scans are obviously more relevant than a Marie meme, it's still important to remember that assorted files that are uploaded from Tweets are not assumed to be accurate or in accordance with wiki policy, even if on a personal level I'm more in agreement that these characters are intended to be male.
Sidenote: I do think there's an argument to be made that the Ink Pump/talk pages ought to be used more over the Discord, but that's a way way bigger philosophy shift (since people are more active on the Discord, you're more likely to get responses there, so you're incentivized to post (or cross-post) on there, so more people prioritize the Discord, etc). Though to reiterate, this started as a simple, "Hey people that know Japanese, what is the source for Mashup's gender so I can add it to the page?" to which the response was, "it's pronoun use, same reason as Sid and Baker," and then from that a discussion about pronoun use started.
Other sidenote: I'd say that the null hypothesis (i.e. the basic assumption) is that characters have unspecified gender, and the burden of proof ought to be on proving that they do have a specified gender. I don't think appearance should play any role here, since what "looks" male or female is inherently conjectural and subjective. A rassicas translation that uses those pronouns is at best a secondary source, since it doesn't actually point to where the gender is confirmed (in fact, the Chirpy Chips band bio from BancalaWalker uses he/him for Sid, but the pronoun use is taken from the livestream log, so it wouldn't be an appropiate source). rassicas or another translator saying, "Sid's gender was chosen to be male here due to pronoun use in the livestream transcription," would be a much better source, but to my knowledge this was not present in those articles at any point. underFlorence (talk | contribs) 21:10, 20 January 2025 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ohh. I swear I remembered something like Splatoon Base officially sourcing Clash's gender as male in English. If that's not the case, then I admit my fault. Anyway, thank you so much for being open and civil about it and clarifying your very stance about it since you are the author of the edits I was referring to (I didn't want to explicitly call your name since it would have felt warlike on my part).
PS: sorry for my ignorance, but what is a "livestream log"? I don't have any Splatoon book, so I don't know what it is (in relation to the series) and how relevant it is as a source material. Spleet (talk) 21:46, 20 January 2025 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The livestream transcript is a particular article from BancalaWalker that is a transcript of a (in-universe) Chirpy Chips livestream. You can find images of those pages here and a fan translation by rassicas, with help by MagicalGirlFia, here. It's relevant in that it contains a use of オレ by Sid, which is the source that was used by fan translators for referring to Sid as male later down the line. The source on Clash's gender apparently comes from when they're referred with the third-person pronoun 彼 in the band member bios from HaikaraWalker, though this is second-hand info and I don't have a source or page number on hand - I'm currently working through the bands roughly in order (though Front Roe and Diss-Pair were pulled a bit forward due to their heavy connection with Squid Squad making it infeasible to edit only part of it) and am generally hoping to find refs for all minor characters with specified genders so that the question of "where/how was this gender confirmed" doesn't have to be asked as much. underFlorence (talk | contribs) 22:43, 20 January 2025 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ohh, that makes sense! So cool. Hope we'll get an English version of the book, it seems to have many gems relevant to the games' background and I'm curious on how they will localize things (even though it probably won't happen since HaikaraWalker has not been translated as far as I know. Kind of a shame on Nintendo). Thank you again. Spleet (talk) 23:11, 20 January 2025 (UTC)Reply[reply]
This is a very bad faith reading of the related edits.
The scanlations were removed from the page irregardless of the mentions of characters' pronouns in them. The related policy I linked to in my edits says the following:
Please refrain from uploading whole pages of artbook materials to the wiki; images cropped as to only show the specifics of the topic being discussed in the article at hand are the generally anticipated scan format.
Above this paragraph, in the context of the manga series, there is a mention of fan translations/scanlations and how we should avoid them due to them being technically piracy-adjacent. We don't allow pirated materials on the wiki. I added a notice to these scanlation pages that explains the situation.
It would be completely fine to quote parts of this Rassica's unofficial translation in text form for use as a citation; please do not re-add the scanlation images to the pages, as we try to not provide full-page artbook scans on the wiki, even if they have been edited. Please do not seek out full page scans/scanlations of BancalaWalker as you mentioned; we highly prefer (brief) text transcripts as that could not constitute piracy.
In the Discord chat, a few days ago we had a conversation with people fluent in Japanese regarding the handling of characters who have not been gendered at all in English (or other) localizations, instead only being referred to with Japanese personal pronouns. This mostly affects the minor band characters. Here is a link to the conversation (you must join the server to read it). If you don't want to join the server, I'd be happy to copy and paste the conversation for you to read. The gist of it is certain Japanese personal pronouns are strongly connotated with certain genders, but in the absence of other gendered words it is best to "play it safe" by listing "unknown" and neutral pronouns (they/them). We do this not as evidence the characters are nonbinary/otherwise gender non-conforming nor to lean credence on Nintendo/the Splatoon developers for including such, but out of wanting to accurately reflect the official material. In that conversation we were provided popular examples of definitively non-male characters using ore, such as Susie from Deltarune.
I would strongly prefer you ping me or mention my username when you are discussing my edits in an accusatory way. It turns out there is a more definitive masculine word (not a personal pronoun) used for Clash/Noisy from Chirpy Chips that I wasn't aware of. I was mistaken, and underFlorence immediately corrected my edit, with further discussion in our designated quick discussion space, our Discord server, to explain the specifics.
The Discord server is not intended as a "non-public" area where secret discussions take place, it is a free chatroom carried out on a free platform that anyone may join. It tends to be the quickest and easiest way to reach staff members for editing help, so we highly promote it to our editors. Yoshifan52 (talk) 00:26, 21 January 2025 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Lol… guess we're making a bad-faith war, apparently. I'm joking of course, but I'm personally not in the mood for it, since I've clarified my intentions with UnderFlorence about the issue (and with you now, hopefully). Anyway, don't worry! I will not add anything back or interfere with the edits made by both of you; I would have no purpose doing it other than making myself look like a complete fool and bringing up unnecessary polemics that would only waste me time and energy. As I've mentioned with UnderFlorence, I also do not have any book, nor do I know people who do (and are fluent enough in Japanese to give a reliable translation), so I can't add anything x) Thank you for expressing your preference about mentioning you. I didn't do it because I thought it would have been impolite and unnecessarily attacking you, but it turns out I was in error. Didn't know about Susie as well.
Regarding Discord, one of my fears is that no publicly known moderation allows bad-talking and gossip about users who are not in; I can't of course speak with experience in this specific server, but I pretty much imagine there has been some controversy about me in there, therefore I'm not personally interested in joining, especially as of now. If anything, an indexed server would make disagreements more civil, as one is supposed to think a few times before publicly asserting their dissensus (a bit like we're doing here, without the need to calling names or attacking). That is my reason for not wanting to join Inkipedia's Discord server. Anyway, thanks for the clarifications! Spleet (talk) 01:06, 21 January 2025 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'm not sure what you mean. I made a mistaken edit then had it corrected, I don't think I've made any bad faith assertions... you made a long, accusatory post about a mistaken edit that had already been fully dealt with, in which you claim I'm pushing an agenda based on your misreading of completely unrelated edits. You made this topic 14 hours after underFlorence had fixed it, which I was made aware of because we were discussing the topic in the chat. Please note I did not re-remove the "he"; the issue was fully resolved. This is unconstructive behavior on your part.
The Discord server is heavily moderated by staff and select exemplary chat members. We have the channels split between editing related and non-editing related, so you could join and only engage with the editing parts. As moderators we work to keep the discussion civil at all times. I personally have stepped in to ensure chat-involved editors are not bad-mouthing "wiki-only" editors, which has only happened on very sparse occasions, ensuring everyone gets to have a say on matters they're involved with. We typically delete inflammatory messages, or at least privately communicate with the troublemakers to explain to them how their behavior has been unconstructive. I frequently advocate for people to hold discussions onwiki so as to generate a paper trail rather than keep everything in the Discord. Several other staff members and regular editors do the same.
"I won't join your secondary discussion space because people have probably been bad-mouthing me in there" is again, an incredibly bad faith assumption. I don't know what to say here; you don't have to join but this is really nonconstructive and unhelpful. You're nearly accusing us of even more misconduct... Yoshifan52 (talk) 03:34, 21 January 2025 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hi Spleet, I did a quick search of your username and I don't think there has been any controversy or accusatory messages on the Discord server about you (nor any discussion).
While I can see why Yoshifan52 would think of your comment on this as bad faith or accusatory, I can rather understand it coming from insecurity about people talking on your back.
Messages on Discord about people that are outside of the server aren't much constructive as they do not help to fix the user's behavior so there's not much purpose on sending them.
I also like to think that all mistakes are opportunities to learn and all users always have room to improve. In my experience while some feedback might sound harsh a few times, non-constructively or negatively criticizing users is something that we try to avoid.
Our staff works hard to maintain a safe, respectful, and kind space on the Discord server for all users. You're always welcome (though not mandatory at all) to join the server to see this for yourself.
Take care and I hope to see you around, It's moon [Talk!] 18:47, 21 January 2025 (UTC)Reply[reply]