Talk:Acht

#0 shell

I'm thinking of creating #0 shell and I've listened to the songs and I recognise the music. However, I don't know what the place is called and whether it's heard in every level. If I do create the page, then what do I put for 'Heard in Splatoon 2'? Malkiboy (talk) 16:45, 28 August 2019 (UTC)Malkiboy

It's heard at the starting area of every station where you select the weapons, I would put "Station entrance areas" or something, leave it as - in the infobox if your still uncertain.  KA467 🗩 🖿  21:43, 28 August 2019 (UTC)

deadmau5

Anyone seen deadmau5's reference to Dedf1sh? ToadLover9001 (talk) 17:14, 5 June 2020 (UTC)ToadLover9001

No, I haven't Lotux (talk) 17:10, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

OwO what reference?? wmyttmlimvty (talk) 19:45, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Who is that? Flame(Talk) 17:14, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

bruh Lotux (talk) 17:10, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

Background

Hey! I have noticed this for a really long time, but I don't think anyone understood last time I brought it up. The background to Dedf1sh's music has a small amount of red in the Kamabo Co. logo. If you take a look, you can see it at the veeeery bottom of the image. Does anyone else think that would be worth noting in at least the trivia? Thanks :) ℂ𝕝𝕒𝕣𝕚𝕟𝕖𝕥.𝕠𝕔𝕥𝕠 (ℙ𝕣𝕒𝕥𝕥𝕝𝕖) 02:07, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

Clarifying why this is notable— think about how Dedf1sh is almost fully sanitized. That's the little amount left. This theme reappears in the finger tips and hair ends. The off white logo could represent the sanitized part of her. 😁 ℂ𝕝𝕒𝕣𝕚𝕟𝕖𝕥.𝕠𝕔𝕥𝕠 (ℙ𝕣𝕒𝕥𝕥𝕝𝕖) 02:12, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

Page Name (Acht vs Dedf1sh)

Should this page be called Acht or Dedf1sh?

I see someone edited the page name to Acht and the opening mentions that they are "better known" as Dedf1sh.

If she is better known as Dedf1sh, then shouldn't that be the name of the page? For example, the Wikipedia page for Deadmau5 uses his best-known name as the page name, and then lists the real name in the opening. Thraysh (talk) 20:39, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

Dedf1sh is an alias used for the artist. Acht is a name. Acht is therefore the first choice.   Perfectionist   (talk) 20:46, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

I personally think the name of the article should be written: Acht (Dedf1sh) VioletOcto (talk) 14:31, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

It shows both, so whoever doesn't know their name is Acht doesn't get confused. VioletOcto (talk) 14:34, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

Dedf1sh already redirects to Acht and the alternate name is in the first sentence of the article. That should be enough clarification to avoid confusion. EminenceTalk 14:41, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

Glasses

In her Octo Expansion art work she appears to have the Octoling Shades. While in Side Order her glasses appear completely differently. I feel like this should be noted in the gallery. Besnhasthefun 17:30, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

Maybe just a new model for the Octoling Shades? -Random 17:45, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

They look nothing alike. Also even if they are the supposed to be the same thing they look drastically different. Besnhasthefun 18:10, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

Hence why I said that it might just be a new model. I don't think it should be added to the page, as the evidence provided isn't really sufficient. -Random 18:17, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

I don't see how they look different from the shades in her album artwork. Arceusgjengen (talk) 21:00, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

I highly agree wuth Besnhasthefun that the two pairs of sunglasses look nothing alike. The Side Order pair are bright red, while the Octo Expansion pair are black with a red tint and details. Her Side Order sunglasses completely lack the details found in the Octoling Shades. Yoshifan52 (talk) 21:09, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

There's nothing much that changed other than a slight color change. I do think that noting that they're red is mandatory, but saying that the glasses are entirely new is totally unnecessary. There's been gear like the Splatfest Tee, or the Basic Tee which have been given different models depending on the game. -Random 17:53, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

Her glasses are a lighter shade of red. Side Order isn't even finished yet, this could simply be an early model of her. -Random 17:55, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

Agreed with Randomname. Arceusgjengen (talk) 19:10, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

Some colorations of the cap and some other proportions slightly differ, but I am quite perplexed how much you go into changes here. It is a character only known by artwork getting a 3D model for the first time. It is not unusual that there are changes when a drawn character gets a model for the first time.   Perfectionist   (talk) 19:20, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

Was thinking that too. Arceusgjengen (talk) 19:26, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

The sunglasses being different is quite noteworthy because Acht's S2 era sunglasses extremely closely resemble a piece of obtainable gear; we therefore have a direct 3D visual of what her S2 era sunglasses are meant to look like in-game. Splatoon 3 does not have that piece of gear, nor do enemy Octolings encountered in story mode wear them, leading this to presumably be a case of Achts's sunglasses being drastically changed due to the Octoling Shades no longer being used in-universe between games. Yoshifan52 (talk) 19:38, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

Look closely at their glasses in File:SO Acht.png, see the red circle? Arceusgjengen (talk) 10:14, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

I'm afraid I don't, but others have since pointed out to me off-site that their S2 era sunglasses do not seem to be a pair of Octoling Shades at all, so I'm now open to altering the related description. Yoshifan52 (talk) 23:13, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

Oh? Why aren't they? /gen Arceusgjengen (talk) 08:47, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

I dont know where their friend got that information. Their glasses and the Octoling Shades are nearly identical and minor differences can be easily explained by the fact that it is an artwork. Besnhasthefun 16:40, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

Apologies for the very late reply; the argument that persuaded me detailed that their glasses appear consistently red throughout and translucent at the edges, unlike the obtainable Octoling Shades, which are solid black (with red tint/details) and opaque. The only artwork in which the Octoling Shades appear to have the level of translucency seen on Acht's S2 artwork pair is in some S2 artbook concept artwork, which I'm not sure can be considered 100% reliable due to its nature as concept artwork that fundamentally differs from the final in-game equivalents. Yoshifan52 (talk) 07:31, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

I'm sorry but I have to agree with Besn here, I think it's not realistic to assume that Acht's S2 glasses are not a pair of Octoling Shades. They are extremely similar and artwork does not always represent coloring or other minor details 100% perfectly. At best I would personally be willing to accept them being described as a 'variant of the Octoling Shades' (anything looser than that would be too much of an assertion on our part IMHO), but I would much sooner keep the description as it is currently. Driftin Soul (talk) 07:44, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Wasn't Acht only partially sanitised?

Apparently the Nintendo Magazine said she willingly was partially sanitised. Lotux (talk) 17:11, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

I thought they said she was simply sanitized, not specifying amount. I didn't see it say she was partially sanitized anywhere, maybe it's a popular headcanon? -Random 17:40, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

She only partially agreed to be sanitized, instead of her literally being partially sanitized. HopeIDon'tRegretThisLater (talk) 22:27, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

What is acht/dedf1sh's gender?

This is a question i've been asking to my self recently, and i'm also wondering why nobody, not even ninetendo, has clarified that. Danika (talk) 14:53, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

In Splatoon 2 promotional material the character uses she/her and is Splatoon 3 promotional material the character uses they/them. They might have switched their pronoun usage or it might just be nothing, we should wait for further details/Side Order for more information. Besnhasthefun 18:22, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

In the game, Pearl refers to Acht in some dialogue with they/them... If it is needed, I will provide a source! HopeIDon'tRegretThisLater (talk) 22:28, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

ok Danika (talk) 22:44, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

Acht has always been explicitly female in the Japanese text, being referred to with "kanojo", which is basically equivalent to she/her. Only as of side order the NA localization has retconned Acht's pronouns.

I do think we should make note that Acht being presented as gender-neutral is something that originated in the English translation, which most if not all of the non-CJK translations are based on. Not to discredit the idea of Acht being nonbinary, but just as Nookipedia makes note of Gracie and Sahara having had their genders changed in the localization, perhaps we should do the same for Acht? I think it's important to make note of when something originates in the localization. LimitedEditionJuddMug (talk) 19:59, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

I think there are instances of "boku" being used in recent JP content, but yeah, maybe we should work on specifying gender differences between JP and EN when applicable. Anemoia [Talk!] 20:02, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

This is true, they do use "boku" in the Japanese version, though female characters using "boku" or even "ore" is relatively common in videogames and anime, especially with characters who have more of a "cool" personality like Acht. Feminine second person pronouns are much less vague in terms of a character's gender in Japanese. Could potentially list their gender as "Unknown (Female in Japanese)", or something along those lines, since it does seem to be a very deliberate choice to use they/them in the localization. They can both be correct, same as with the AC characters whose genders differ in the localization.

LimitedEditionJuddMug (talk) 20:15, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, should have elaborated more-

What I meant is that in Japanese, Acht might be a tomboy or non-conforming rather than nonbinary (this is not something I have verified myself, so strong emphasis on "might" referring to a hypothetical situation), as Japanese pronouns are gendered in a different way than English pronouns are. Expressing gender on a "spectrum of femininity to masculinity" (with the exception of situational uses of certain pronouns) over simply BEING female/male/nb or gnc, if this makes sense.

Regardless of which of these options is true, mentioning both would be good. I think a better option than "Unknown (Female in Japanese)" would rather be to use a linebreak in the infobox and dedicate one line to the English localization and one to the original Japanese version. Anemoia [Talk!] 21:01, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

She's/they're also female in Italian footage (in-game and Twitter post), so the pronouns used in English are…pretty much English only. It's also weird to have a "pronouns" section for Acht when anybody else has "gender"- it would be better to list gender as unknown and clarify her pronouns in a note (in all languages, first and foremost Japanese). Spleet (talk) 15:56, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

The gender/pronouns infobox conflict is a very recent change, so that would explain it. By recent I mean like, a couple of days old max. Supposedly all characters would be updated with pronouns instead of gender (I think) Anemoia [Talk!] 16:03, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

The problem with that would be that other game wikis have gender listed instead of pronouns, as the pronouns are already used in the page itself when describing the characters. Maybe we'd better wait for Japanese feedback/confirmation, just as with Shiver… Spleet (talk) 16:10, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Confirmed to be female (to the surprise of no one)

She has female voice clips, and I found mutliple sources (such as in french, where she introduces herself with "e" at the end of the adjectives describing her, [you add an e to adjectives for females in french) King Boo (talk) 02:41, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

Did you want someone to go in and edit the article for you? Or are you trying to open up a discussion/debate/possibly using the title as rage bait? If you do need help, please let myself or someone else know.

Thanks, Xando (talk) 04:28, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

This consistently dismissive/passive-aggressive tone when speaking on the topic of gender does not do you, or anyone, any favors.
Make edits if you feel they're necessary (ideally with sources cited) and please stop using this inflammatory wording; it has already been explained to you elsewhere that we make judgments based on official info and that we are just as willing to retract said judgments if they are later conclusively proven wrong. Driftin Soul [Talk!] 04:41, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

In the English language version Pearl and Marina consistently refer to Acht with "they" pronouns. Feel free to add a note (not an article-wide correction) of how this element differs per language, but please note that as an English language wiki we aim to primarily reflect the English localization choices through-out articles, even if it conflicts with other official localizations. My understanding is some other localizations use male pronouns for Acht, which further muddles your judgement that they are definitively female. Yoshifan52 (talk) 07:10, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this wiki is for the NOA english localization of the game. Acht's gender is not confirmed at any time, and all characters explicitly refer to Acht as "they" in the DLC. Also just my own observation as a French speaker- gender neutral forms of words are not widely used or understood in french, and splatoon is rated for ages 7 and up in france. Acht probably is referred to with feminine nouns and verbs because it makes the game easier to understand (and also probably to avoid controversy as nintendo does). As far as I know, Acht isn't referred to as "elle" once in the DLC.

(as for the voice clips, gender is not really determinate in s3-- the "female" playable characters are now just feminine in order to make the game more inclusive for non-binary folk :) ) Tentiquills (talk) 14:44, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

I played Side Order in english and spanish and I didn't find a moment when Pearl and Marina referred Acht with they pronouns. They just said her name "Acht". In addition, in the Latin American account of Splatoon, they referred Acht as a "Esta" used for women, if they wanted to use neutral pronouns, then they would have to use "Este" instead of "Esta". Fabi777 (talk) 02:52, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

The use of feminine pronouns for that localization is worth adding as a note to the page. The specific English-language dialogues with use of "they" I've encountered are these:

• "Does Acht just hate to see things to waste? Never mind them, Eight. No need to go out of your way if your tank is full." (Pearl)
• "I don't know if that's the full story. As long as I've known Acht, they've liked cramped spaces and leaning against walls. Isn't that true?" (Marina) Yoshifan52 (talk) 03:18, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

I cant upload the oga file for onward

its over the limit of size Llki (talk) 09:12, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

Minor Grammatical Error

Since the page is locked, I can't edit it, so I'll just point it out here! :)

In the Side Order section under History, there's this scentence: "They went in to rescue her, but was attacked by Jelletons upon entering the Spire," which uses "was" instead of "were"!

Just wanted to let you guys know for when you next edit. ^^ Jcactus (talk) 13:57, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

Thanks a lot! I'll see if I can get it to one of the people who aren't affected by the block. Your help is appreciated! Stay Fresh! NewSquidbeakSplatoon (talk) 22:30, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

Oh it's already fixed lol NewSquidbeakSplatoon (talk) 22:31, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

Yep! I noticed that it wasn't blocked any more, so I just went in & fixed it, haha

Tysm!! :) Jcactus (talk) 22:57, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

Lol! It said it was blocked unless you're auto confirmed, and to my knowledge I am auto confirmed, cuz it doesn't force me to review before editing. Good thing it got unblocked tho! NewSquidbeakSplatoon (talk) 00:53, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

Math in the Trivia

Hi, I saw that in the trivia section of Acht's page it says "Acht's numbered catalog of songs in the Octo Expansion appears to be missing select numbers: 3, 7, 10, 15, 17, and 18. When adding the numbers from the title of each song and then dividing the total by the number of songs Acht has composed, the result is 8, a recurring number in the Octo Expansion". But 3+7+10+15+17+18 equals 70 and Acht has 15 songs in Octo Expansion, but 70 divided by 15 is 4.66. Am I missing something or is the trivia just wrong? Petal Mail (talk) 22:10, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

It means adding the numbers from the titles of each of the songs that do exist, not the excluded numbers. 0+1+2+4+5+6+8+9+11+12+13+14+16+19 = 120, and 120÷15 = 8. Hewer (talk · contributions) 17:01, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Sanitization

Based on some dialogue in Side Order, I'm not so sure that Acht agreed, or even partially agreed, to be sanitized. When Pearl and Marina are talking about the Deep Sea Metro in the elevator, Acht says, "Someone or something there took my will away. I was forced to DJ for it." If they in any way agreed to be sanitized, they would have been in contact with Tartar, but "someone or something" implies they don't know who did it. Using the words "took" and "forced" would also imply that Acht was not sanitized by choice. I don't think it's simply an issue of Acht forgetting that they agreed due to sanitization's memory loss. Acht is able to talk about their time in the Octarian Army with Marina, and the impact of Marina's desertion, which would mean they somehow regained their memories. I know that interview mentions that Acht did it willingly, but they also said "it is said," which means it's just a rumor, and may not be true. The Side Order dialogue could also simply be a retcon of the original idea of Acht being willingly sanitized.

I also think Pearl's Killer Wail at the end of Octo Expansion may be what freed Acht from sanitization. I unfortunately don't remember the exact wording for this one, but during some other elevator dialogue, Acht mentions hearing Pearl back then. It sounds like Pearl's Killer Wail may have had a similar effect to the Calamari Inkantation freeing many of the Octolings, including Marina and Eight. CptObvious1994 (talk) 13:48, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

We'd have to check the original Japanese quote for this. If it's there in Japanese too, either this bit of info was retconned, or certain side effects of sanitization were purposefully kept secret so that octolings (or other creatures) who were going to be sanitized would not fight back. As for Acht regaining their memories, that's not entirely out of the question as it is the point of Marina's project, but whether it would be possible for Acht to recall so many memories within such a short time span (in-game) is debatable. That said, there's also the possibility of rewording the paragraph about Acht's sanitization to make it more ambiguous, if we don't find a proper answer to this question. Anemoia [Talk!] 14:08, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

I wanna add that the "Calamari Inkatiation frees souls" thing is a translation only thing. Olivia (talk) 14:10, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

Famitsu interview translation?

I know this is probably the wrong page to ask on, but where can I find the official translation of the most recent Famitsu interview talking about Acht among other Side Order characters? Thank you in advance. Spleet (talk) 13:36, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

As far as I'm aware there is no "official" translation yet. Rassicas (who is generally a pretty good fan translator) translated it here. Lyichir (talk) 15:32, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Thank you kindly! Spleet (talk) 17:23, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Information on Acht's pronouns in various localizations

I know there's been a lot of debate over Acht's gender and how to handle it, but I think a good compromise would be including information on the language used in different versions, mainly just to avoid confusion. I'd like it if people who speak one or more languages besides English could pitch in what terminology is used in any given localization, just to categorize which versions use masculine terms, feminine, neutral, whatever else there might be, as it's a unique case of a character's gender varying between versions, which i would say is noteworthy and should be documented.

I for one only understand English and Japanese, and I'm not exactly sure how to address the terminology used for Acht in Japanese as Acht has been referred to with "kanojo" in writing in the past, which is equivalent to "she", but gendered terms are very rare outside of written Japanese, so as far as I've seen there are no gendered terms used in the dialogue. This isn't a retcon, because that's just how the language works, but I know a lot of people won't take that as relevant to the present unless Nintendo comes out with a statement explicitly telling us exactly how Acht identifies (which will not happen, as the Japanese community is barely even aware this is a debate to begin with.) because the English localization has a retcon.

That said, do drop any information on the various versions! I'm aware all the elevator dialogue has been dumped, so one could probably just find the pronouns and look up whether they're masculine or feminine, but I figure it would be better to gather information from people who understand the nuances of any given language, as grammatical gender isn't always so simple.

LimitedEditionJuddMug (talk) 23:08, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

Are you sure that the languages that call use female pronouns aren't only those that don have neuter? (ex. French) Olivia (talk) 14:21, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

I can confirm the same case with Russian. Acht uses "she/her" in Russian because the language doesn't have neutral pronouns. Some people use an equivalent to "they/them" ("она/они") nowadays, but it's relatively new and, just technically, isn't grammatically correct. Milchik (talk) 14:31, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

I'm not familiar enough with Russian grammar, is there a way to get around gendered suffixes at all by using synonyms? In French, although it can be annoying, it's possible to write fully ambiguous text (it's a little easier to do so orally). Anemoia [Talk!] 14:36, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

Russian is very gender-based in its grammar. In case of Agents or Captain, for example, the game dialogues avoid the use of genders by never adressing the player in past tense (which always uses "gendered" words), instead using either present or future tense (which doesn't use "gendered" words). It's helped by the fact that it's always the other people who's speaking of Agents and Captain. For example, Agent 1 and 2 would say "Капитан говорит, что что-то произошло" ("Captain says that something happened") instead of "Капитан сказал (m)/сказала (f), что что-то произошло" ("Captain said that something happened").

When speaking about themselves, like Acht does, it's nearly impossible to not use "gendered" words at some point (or they'd have to never use the past tense or speak about their past at all, which would be very weird), so it was inevitable. Milchik (talk) 14:49, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

From what I've heard though is it not the case that most strictly gendered languages default to masculine terms when referring to people of unspecified gender (such as hypotheticals)? Either way, it's still worth noting, as Acht being explicitly ungendered is something original to the English localization, though it does seem outside of the Chinese and Korean translations, most translations are based off the English localization. Does not mean it isn't worth cataloging the information, especially if the people saying some translations use masculine terms aren't just making things up.

LimitedEditionJuddMug (talk) 02:14, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

The Italian localization uses feminine words to refer to Acht, as I've said above. It is true that Italian has no neutral gender, but gendered terms could be avoided with synonyms and they didn't avoid them. After all, if Acht has been referred to with kanojo in Japanese, which is the very word for "her", I'm pretty sure the character has been intended as a girl. The neutral pronouns used in English could have been a sort of "mistranslation" of Acht's use of the personal pronoun boku, which is typically, but not only, used by boys. I know people somewhat "want" Acht to be confirmed as non-binary, especially after the Shiver case, but this is not a place for headcanons. It's an encyclopedia, so we should stick to what the Japanese version gives. (and anyway everyone can headcanon whatever they want, even with canon confirmations about gender if they do happen.)

Also, we need to be consistent with the "gender" vs "pronouns" on info boxes. I didn't touch it for now to avoid edit wars, but I would propose using the "Gender" tab with "Ambiguous" and put the pronouns in the note. After all, every other character (save for Cipher, whose gender is also made a "mystery" by English localization's use of the pronoun "it" despite having literal male names in all other localization) has a "Gender" tab instead of "Pronouns". The pronouns are always used throughout the article itself, so I honestly find them redundant to be listed in info boxes. Spleet (talk) 06:16, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Are you sure that Cipher's name is male in Japanese? Olivia (talk) 09:37, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

In Japanese, I don't know honestly :0 The name "Yume'ebi" sounds neutral, as it is a portmanteau of two words with no gender connotation. I think Cipher could be intended to be completely genderless, since it is an artificial "creation" (and the English use of "it" instead of "them" probably nods at that). Spleet (talk) 11:15, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Yume'ebi is simply the name of the genus, and in some posts it was referred to with the equivalent to "organism", so It does seem likely that Cipher for one actually was intended to be genderless from the beginning.

LimitedEditionJuddMug (talk) 02:24, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

I believe Smollusk's page also has a pronoun box, but I do agree that it is redundant (and, in my eyes, a bit anglocentric, as the languages other than English i am most familiar with barely use second person pronouns at all) and would be better served by just marking characters like Smollusk or Cipher with "unknown" or "ambiguous", as is already done with most of the band characters. As well, the entire concept of gendered second person pronouns can be confusing for people whose first languages only have one second person pronoun, especially those who rely on translation software to read English material, so I would say just for accessibility's sake it would be good to still have a gender box.

Whether the localization was a mistranslation due to the translators for the game perhaps being unaware Acht has been explicitly gendered as female or a deliberate decision (perhaps to compensate for the Shiver backlash...?) is entirely up to speculation, but i could see it going either way. What I will say is there isn't a great track record of the English translators checking for inaccuracies in terms of characterization.

LimitedEditionJuddMug (talk) 02:50, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

To me, the idea that it's compensation sounds ridiculous. Olivia (talk) 09:06, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

There was enough of a fuss that that NOA made an official statement, so I imagine they're very aware of how in-demand a canonically nonbinary character is. I do think it's a much less likely scenario, though. But either way it's nothing but speculation, so it's irrelevant anyway. LimitedEditionJuddMug (talk) 11:06, 15 April 2024 (UTC)